Ableton Forum

Does anyone know for sure that support stops on the version you own?

And putting aside the time to fix bugs, updates have never been the same for bug fixes anywhere. It's usually years before developers abandon an old version.

Stromkraft wrote: If you mean you have to pay for a major update, that's not different from most other music software. The current WUP (Waves Update Plan) really only affects the ability to resell Waves licenses and the support level. You're not cut out from incremental updates.

I've had quite a number of plugins added to my bundles over the years that I only got when the WUP was active

Forge. wrote:

Stromkraft wrote: If you mean you have to pay for a major update, that's not different from most other music software. The current WUP (Waves Update Plan) really only affects the ability to resell Waves licenses and the support level. You're not cut out from incremental updates.

I've had quite a number of plugins added to my bundles over the years that I only got when the WUP was active

This may be so but it is irrelevant as the issue was about getting incremental updates of plug-ins you do have. I don't see getting new plug-ins in a bundle you have happening during incremental updates being a realistic expectation.

And the fact is you don't need an active WUP in order to get to enjoy incrementally updated Waves plug-ins. For instance I updated Waves Central and got side-chain support in Live 9 for all my plug-ins with SC, even C1, though my WUP was out.

antic604 wrote:NAMM starts today in California. Can / should we expect something from Ableton regarding Live?

AFAIK they do not have a booth at the show

antic604 wrote:

Angstrom wrote:

antic604 wrote:NAMM starts today in California. Can / should we expect something from Ableton regarding Live?

AFAIK they do not have a booth at the show

Damn

From what I remember, Ableton haven't been at NAMM for a number of years, so let's hope they do an announcement just after

On the Bitwig topic, I was an early adopter and had it for a year. In that time, there were lots of updates and new features but the bugs just kept growing with each update. I ended up selling it when they introduced touch support but did not address the persistent bugs. Just seemed to me like they are focussed on bringing really cool features that kinda work but ignore the show stoppers. I was in contact with BW support over my projects being corrupted and random crashing. In the end, I just got tired of being a paying beta tester.

However, there are a few things in BW that I think are much better implemented than in Live. For ex.
-In house modulation system
-Audio clip handling (editing in place instead of dragging it to session view)
-Layered clip editing
-No 128 parameter limit

I'm very torn on whether to jump on the Bitwig 2 bandwagon. I have played with the demo and the audio editing is much better in Bitwig, mainly because they added clip fades, but instead of having to hold cntrl-shft-f like in Ableton you just hover the mouse over the clip edge which gives you the option to fade the clip, with editable curves as well. This is a game changer for those that slice and dice lots of audio.

The main thing I'm torn on is the general direction of these competing DAW's. Ableton is already locked into hardware integration with Push, but Bitwig is more invested in software, with touchscreens as the input devices and all of the awesome internal modulation options. I like having options, so being able to run full software on something like a Surface Pro tablet, which can then be moved to a studio environment which can have 3 displays, high DPI scaling etc.. is very intriguing.

With that said I'm not a fan of the yearly paid update/support plan. I shouldnt have to pay to have bugs fixed that were in an earlier version that I paid for.

So I will take the pragmatic approach and wait to see what Abes 10 has to offer, which by the way...where the F is Live 10, its been 4 years since a major release!

mekanism1200 wrote:I'm very torn on whether to jump on the Bitwig 2 bandwagon.

I think you need to read some Bitwig user groups. Their pain is different and not the pain I want.

I wish different DAW manufacturers would improve the working between DAWs as it would benefit them all.

Studio One's arrangement track and scratchpad is EXCELLENT and exactly what I've needed in Live for ages ...
so my process involves either using Live as a rewire slave (with all the limitations Ableton imposed : No VSTs, No Guitar Rig, No Convolution Pro, No LFOs, etc)
or more often - rendering stems out of Live so I can arrange in Studio One.

If Ableton don't want to make a decent arrangement editor (or some other function), they should save themselves the time and allow inter-operability with other DAWS with do offer this feature.
Additionally the reliance of Ableton on Max for key tools like reverbs and LFOs is once again exposed as a flaw as soon as we need to step outside the walled garden .

Stromkraft wrote:

mekanism1200 wrote:I'm very torn on whether to jump on the Bitwig 2 bandwagon.

I think you need to read some Bitwig user groups. Their pain is different and not the pain I want.

Yeah, thats why I'm waiting to see what 10 has to offer. While Bitwig sounds enticing, learning another DAW will have its set-backs and headaches, not to mention dealing with different bugs. Its very easy to get caught up in wanting the latest and greatest gadgets.

Angstrom wrote:I wish different DAW manufacturers would improve the working between DAWs as it would benefit them all.

Studio One's arrangement track and scratchpad is EXCELLENT and exactly what I've needed in Live for ages ...
so my process involves either using Live as a rewire slave (with all the limitations Ableton imposed : No VSTs, No Guitar Rig, No Convolution Pro, No LFOs, etc)
or more often - rendering stems out of Live so I can arrange in Studio One.

If Ableton don't want to make a decent arrangement editor (or some other function), they should save themselves the time and allow inter-operability with other DAWS with do offer this feature.
Additionally the reliance of Ableton on Max for key tools like reverbs and LFOs is once again exposed as a flaw as soon as we need to step outside the walled garden .

Couldnt agree more on this. They at least seem to be willing to work with App developers on Link, maybe something like Link that would allow audio and midi routing would be the answer.

Stromkraft wrote:

PHY6 wrote:My personal experience with Bigwig v1 is really bad...

Care to elaborate?

When projects got big (20+ tracks), all sorts of problems started to come.
Plugin states not saved, routings were not like they used to be. External midi connections where lost.
Crashes...and sluggish UI.
To a point where I didn't want to start a new project.
I won't upgrade to 2.
Someday I'll give the latest build another try.

Bitwig 2 is rock solid for me (Windows) and I havent touched Live since it came out as the modulators (and cv for my Eurorack with ES-8) are just too good. I think Ableton went all in with Push, they are a hell of a long way behind Bitwig in terms of features, but I am hanging on to my licence as Live 10 may offer something different.

Sean_Clarke wrote:Bitwig 2 is rock solid for me (Windows) and I havent touched Live since it came out as the modulators (and cv for my Eurorack with ES-8) are just too good. I think Ableton went all in with Push, they are a hell of a long way behind Bitwig in terms of features, but I am hanging on to my licence as Live 10 may offer something different.

How do you find the Bitwig 2 timing sync'ed to hardware? That area is supposed to be re-written.

I'm also keeping my Live 9 license for whenever 10 comes out. But I am only using Bitwig these days. The modulators in v2 are excellent and very fast to work with. Bitwig is also better for audio editing, can do groups in groups, and since neither of them can do ghost clips, being able to edit a group of clips at once is rather handy.

I have just swapped my Live Standard license for a Bitwig Studio 2 license, just waiting for them to activate it. Haven't even tried the demo version, but I'm swapping just because I want to switch back to GNU/Linux. Will gladly pay for yearly support if the Bitwig software does half the job Live does but on my platform of choice.

If Ableton would decide to support GNU/Linux, I might give it another go (in case I don't find Bitwig to do what I'm expecting). Really tired of Windows and MacOS making the systems worse by every single update nowadays.

Over and out!

antic604: That would've been a fantastic option, right? No, unfortunately you have to find someone with a Bitwig Studio 2 licence willing to swap with your Live Standard if you wanna go my route.

I'm still using Live 9.7.2 and Logic Pro X for most recording projects, but thought I should give Bitwig 2 a try. I found the modulation feature excellent for auto-generated music creation.

Here's an example using 100% Bitwig instruments and effects.

https://youtu.be/xDikDUUqk4U

Enjoy!