Is anyone here still rocking vinyl ?

Discuss anything related to audio or music production.
Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Is anyone here still rocking vinyl ?

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:35 pm

Angstrom wrote:
Producers say "oh the audience might not know that's a 96khz recording of a real VCO, but they can hear the difference". But they really can't, they respond to music like they respond to Instagram filters. If it seems vintagey then that will do to establish mood, and if it's an Arturia Minimoog played on a 128kbps Mp3 then that's perfectly acceptable to do that job for most punters.
While that may be true you are mistakenly mixing up what people are aware of with what they unaware of. There a number of things that people react to without being aware of their reaction and these reactions can actually be measured. There is of course a sliding scale from the subconscious brain to the conscious, but having made a number of club nights when I was the one fighting for and typically doing most of the work to realize sound quality ideas, I was always proven right in the end, also by crew members that at first didn't believe it would matter.

Being a music production pro, I think is about knowing from first-hand experience what works and what doesn't. Here's a real world example:

Club night with several hundred punters about to go wild:

The amateur, in which I'd include name DJs and famous promoters, tries to drive the ecstatic crowed by increasing gain. The result: 70& loves it and 30% goes home. Too loud is real and is why some people think you must take drugs when dancing. Which you don't.

The pro, in which I'd include some other name DJs and famous promoters, built a great system that cost real money out of their own pockets, and instead of increasing gain they add controlled saturation to the mix. The result is that everyone now think it's louder though it isn't so almost everybody stays much longer than the other night. It's these night I keep jumping up and down all night, even when I'm out of shape.

Great music is always great music, and while sometimes that can shine trough in a mediocre sound system, a great sound system playing great music is an alloy made in heaven no matter how you think consciously about music.
Make some music!

Angstrom
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Re: Is anyone here still rocking vinyl ?

Post by Angstrom » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:16 am

To be clear, I'm not saying "lets play 128kbps mp3s" I'm saying that most audiences settle for bad sound, so it makes me laugh when people are talking about super subtle nuances between a tempco stabilised VCO and a digitally stabilised analog oscillator. I'm like "dudes, these people really cannot tell the difference between simulated and real tuning drift and they dont even know it exists !"

Nerds argue heatedly about things that really dont matter to music listeners. I mean no way matter.

You make a point about "too loud" sound, that is not at all what I am saying. Thats the opposite of what I am saying, because volume is obvious to anyone.

I am talking about producers arguing about niche minutiae like these tiny details are ESSENTIAL to music, like the "through hole component" arguments. "Dude, if its SMD its not real analog ...". That sort of thing.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Is anyone here still rocking vinyl ?

Post by Stromkraft » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:03 am

Angstrom wrote:To be clear, I'm not saying "lets play 128kbps mp3s" I'm saying that most audiences settle for bad sound, so it makes me laugh when people are talking about super subtle nuances between a tempco stabilised VCO and a digitally stabilised analog oscillator. I'm like "dudes, these people really cannot tell the difference between simulated and real tuning drift and they dont even know it exists !"

Nerds argue heatedly about things that really dont matter to music listeners. I mean no way matter.

You make a point about "too loud" sound, that is not at all what I am saying. Thats the opposite of what I am saying, because volume is obvious to anyone.

I am talking about producers arguing about niche minutiae like these tiny details are ESSENTIAL to music, like the "through hole component" arguments. "Dude, if its SMD its not real analog ...". That sort of thing.
Yeah, I got that.
My point is simply everything that results in an emotional response matters. The trick is to know what that is.
Mu example with volume was not to zone in on what you were talking about but simply illustrating that there is a palpable difference in reaction also when people aren't aware. That saturation is perceived as louder is well-researched. One source is the man behind AAC (forgot his name, but he also worked for AT & T).
Because this sound is actually not louder the experience tend to be more emotional rather than intellectual. I should have been more clear on that.

In the first Amateur example I gave I'm sure some people, like myself, would react to the increased volume, certainly if paired with system breaking up, but in the latter part, the pro, the level of saturation is too small to register consciously (less than a few percent). Yet the audience is reacting as it is louder than what it is. I've experienced this many times myself.

One example where I'm sure this, and other great sound ideas, were at play is FRRC by Ricardo Villalobos in Barcelona June 19 2015 (Indigo Raw). Totally stellar, incredible sound everywhere inside, felt to the bone and yet you could talk to your neighbours. I don't know which technicians made this happen, but what they did mattered deeply. All other clubs and the Sonar festival that week paled in experience comparison. Electric audience too and I'm convinced the incredible sound was part of this.

So, sorry, great quality matters. Not every detail matters and many things producers waste time on involves stuff that don't change the potential emotional content of the song in question. So again, the trick is to know what pays off to focus on. I'm not pretending to know all about that, but I'm on a path to learn as much as I can about these aspects of music production. Worrying about stuff is not a good technique. Completing music is one of the best ways forward. As far as I'm concerned this is what it's all about. That and having fun.
Make some music!

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