Ableton DJs, please pack your bags and go home

[pink vagina orifice]

"spending quality time with yourself will never be the same again!"

[wildcon]

Okay couldn't resist this one, despite the fact that it's been done to death and I've already posted on another similar topic.

Fankly the whole argument sucks and is a waste of time.

However -

I am a clasically trained musician who can play the violin, guitar and pretty basic piano/keyboards. I have been playing for appprox 20 years. Now I put this statement in just to show I have some musical 'know how' and not for any egotistical reason.

I have been messing around with DJ'ing on live and will do my first gig in a couple of weeks.

Whilst practicing and getting together my set, it has become apparent that there is more to DJ'ing (with any format) than meets the eye. Well, if you want to give a good set that is (I've listened to some stinkers of sets from DJ's in fairly big London locations who are quite happy to slam one track into another). There is undoubtably an element of musicianship in producing a good set ie: pacing, ensuring that there's no horrendous key changes and musical ways to move from one track to another etc.

I do however have to say that this technology (decks Vs CD's Vs Laptops etc) is a complete waste of time and space.

Even the traditionalists who are using decks are mainly playing 'electronically' produced music, that has been produced using computer technology and using computeried sequencers eg Cubase, Logic, Pro tools etc.

If you mix records that are in effect recorded by a live band with no 'artificial' quantisation using decks then you have every right to give yourself a big pat on the back as I'm sure the skill element in beatmatching etc is well worth shouting about.

If not, then don't carp on about using technology (ie Live) when the very records you are playing have been produced using that very same technology.

If it offends you that much then throw out you 'perfectly in time' House, Trance, Hip-hop, Electronica etc and then see what you have left in your set's.

Okay, rant over. I'm off to get my Electronic Pink Vagina - Nice

[starving student]

z-trip.

[smutek]

If you mix records that are in effect recorded by a live band with no 'artificial' quantisation using decks then you have every right to give yourself a big pat on the back as I'm sure the skill element in beatmatching etc is well worth shouting about.

Honestly, Beatmatching is pretty easy. Tip of the iceberg though.

[Chris J]

Why people who hate Dj's and feel they are real artists come up with crap music ?

[Machinate]

Why people who hate Dj's and feel they are real artists come up with crap music ?

well, there is a difference of concepts here. Artist does not = Good. but by definition an artist CREATES - which makes the ARTIST different from the definition of a DJ.
Now a DJ may well be an ARTIST as well, ie spining his or her own tracks or doing *radical* remixing, etc., but that still doesn't make it good.

I may hate djs (personally I reckon there are enough bedroom producers to take over every dj-position in the world, and then some - I'd like to see that happen, but it's definitely moving in the wrong direction - more reproduction, less production) but of course that hate doesn't make my music any good. It is, but that's a totally different matter.

The biggest difference here is of course that a dj CAN play a good song without being talented, clever, gifted, artistic or good. The musician cannot.

[Chris J]

I was being provocative, cause all this doesn't make sense. I personnally never heard a DJ say "I'm a great artist".Good DJs say "I'm good at moving a crowd"
so why attack Djs for something they don't claim.

As for the Live DJs suck statements, as everyone can come up with different ways to use live, this is pure abstract and a generalization that shows the narrow minds of their authors

[Nixon]

well, he should SELECT the song first... And believe me, i've seen enough that couldn't take this step as well...

[stallos]

worst thread ever.....

why does it bother people so much that others DJ with Live ?
Is it because you thought you were the future DJ and now that Live is a popular application they have stolen an opprtunity from you?

I dont get what all this ranting is about

So many people on the board seem to criticise people for doing a DJ set with Live and using tried and tested effects. Get off your high horses, are people not allowed to have fun with the application? Has everyone got to be pioneering the next new and exciting sound ?

Lots of people want to be DJs. Why wouldnt they? getting paid big bucks to fly around the world and rock crowds of up for it clubbers. Lots of people want to be pro footballers too. Of course not everyone has the skill/determination to make the premier league so should we berate all the people who play football but not as skillfully as Zidane for trying ?

Why not concentrate on your own sound??

[chris vine]

[quote=

The biggest difference here is of course that a dj CAN play a good song without being talented, clever, gifted, artistic or good. The musician cannot.[/quote]

Yep, copy that.

I saw a poster advertising a gig recently with pictures of three DJs looking at their laptops screens/mixers and I thought "oh that looks REALLY exciting, not".

I appreciate a good DJ that can move a crowd, choose the right tunes at the right time etc, there is a skill to it - but I don't need to watch them while they choose theier tracks, look thru their vinyl collection onstage.......

[hambone1]

Nobody wants to watch the deejay, unless the deejay is trying to be some attention-seeking vaudeville act.

It's all about what comes out of the loudspeakers...

[Chris J]

a dj CAN play a good song without being talented, clever, gifted, artistic or good. The musician cannot.

this is purely abstract. what is a good song ?
99% of electronic music I hear, on this board or anywhere else, sounds crap to me. I wouldn't say their composers are clever nor gifted, nor good.
And yet a lot of people do, maybe because they think "yeah I can do that too" of course they can, anybody can. Just as easy as DJing.
Take a loop, random this, beat repeat that, I'm an artist.

All these tools (softwares, etc) appeal to people because they make everybody feel they are artists, so when these artists start shitting on a very similar category (DJs) boy that makes me laugh...not

[quandry]

p.s. dont bother playing around pushing buttons and truning knobs on your controller when your not actually doing anything...alot of us do know the tracks and when you do that stuff you only make yourself look like a fool

I recently saw Sound Tribe Sector 9 in D.C. (they are a live band that incorporates 4 G4's on stage at once, all running Live)--they had a dude, Machinedrum (geez, where did he come up with that name, and he didn't even frikkin have a machinedrum on stage!) open up for them and playing between their sets. His music was okay--blantantly trying to be Prefuse 73 on each and every cut, and he wasn't. The thing that really pissed me off was standing on the balcony looking down and seeing him totally fake like he was doing some shit on his laptop, but he wasn't touching anything--far as I can tell he just hit play once (or maybe even once every song!) and then just faked like he was doing some shit, maybe thinking that people couldn't see he was doing nothing since most people on the floor couldn't see through his computer screen. Reguardless, the incessant headbobbing and hip-hop style hand motions got really annoying, almost as annoying as the way too tight indie tee with requisite beer belly hanging out for all to see. I was insulted that in a live performance that I paid to see that someone is trying to decieve the audience, to fake like they're doing something there not. I guess it is fairly common these days for pop groups and stuff, but I don't go to those type of shows. If you do choose to DJ your tracks or other peoples, find ways to do more than just play one clip of one produced song, and don't fake like your doing shit that your not--you will definitely lose all street credit amongst anyone else who knows about Live, or can see that you aren't even touching your computer.

Ryab

[Chris J]

a dj CAN play a good song without being talented, clever, gifted, artistic or good. The musician cannot.

this is purely abstract. what is a good song ?
99% of electronic music I hear, on this board or anywhere else, sounds crap to me. I wouldn't say their composers are clever nor gifted, nor good.
And yet a lot of people do, maybe because they think "yeah I can do that too" of course they can, anybody can. Just as easy as DJing.
Take a loop, random this, beat repeat that, I'm an artist.

All these tools (softwares, etc) appeal to people because they make everybody feel they are artists, so when these artists start shitting on a very similar category (DJs) boy that makes me laugh...not

OK, I've had my meal, I feel much less grumpy now, and feel that only 90% of pure electronic music is crap

[dj_statikfire]

OK so I dont mean all obviously. But this has been bothering me most lately is the wave of the Ableton DJ who thinks once he/she has got beatmatching/warping down they are a DJ to be of the future.

Guys, beatmatching is not even half of what DJing is about...congrats if you find out how to warp a track after your 2 month learning curve. However, DJing is about your tracks selection, the order you put it in, the flow, the moods you create with it- one that makes makes musical sense...and for God's sake please do it all harmonically!

just a rant.

p.s. dont bother playing around pushing buttons and truning knobs on your controller when your not actually doing anything...alot of us do know the tracks and when you do that stuff you only make yourself look like a fool

Sure I perform. Check out my mixes "Up To The Minute" and "Slap it to The Old Guard" , which were both performed in one take.


THX,
Jason D