Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:27 pm
and they shall call it "Final Crapsh"
Hahahaha! They should make a MIDI controller that looks like 2 SL1200's to get that "Retro" feeling going!!!
Ableton Forum
Anyone got slated for DJing with Live?
Page 3 of 3
Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:43 am
i actually heard james zabiela say this in an interview. here's the link:mike holiday wrote:spiderprod wrote:apart for showing peoples you own a laptop ,there is no real point in using live if you just play one track after the other .
http://kcrw.com/cgi-bin/db/kcrw.pl?show ... _type=Show
there's a great aphex twin windowlicker remix in there too. i think its the kriece one from utilities all mashed up. quite good.
Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:03 am
I have been DJing for years too
hard dance
i have always appreciated the live PAs more than the DJs
(although i was horrified to discover one of my favourite live PAs just played a DAT)
I think ableton is definitely the way forward
especially if you are producing tracks
lets face it
who doesn't own a set of decks now days
it's like kareoke
ableton is the way forward for sure
hard dance
i have always appreciated the live PAs more than the DJs
(although i was horrified to discover one of my favourite live PAs just played a DAT)
I think ableton is definitely the way forward
especially if you are producing tracks
lets face it
who doesn't own a set of decks now days
it's like kareoke
ableton is the way forward for sure
Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:29 pm
0) First, instruments became semi-automated. The squeezebox, the harmonica, the zither: not considered serious instruments by the core musical establishment. More like musical toys, of which a bunch of patented mechanical types generated brief fads.
0a) Recording technology allowed the capture and distribution of musical performance.
1) Acoustic instruments became electrified. Many considered this heresy, a trick, a cheapening.
2) The logical evolution: semi-automated electrified acoustic paint-by-numbers (SAEAPBN) instruments: the chick-a-click-dinky-dink cha-cha-cha electric organ with 120 presets. There is little argument about the degenerate nature of these instruments, or the woeful nature of the thought that one of these actually induced someone to 'cha cha'.
3) Then, electrified evolved into electronic. No acoustic vibrations. Many robust synthetic instrument systems were built, these were forcibly mated with the SAE(-A)PBN to spawn a number of sophisticated instruments as well as a legion of degenerate consumer products.
4) Semi-automated became more fully automated, the number of programmable parameters was increased, until then complex programmable electronic, fully automatable self-generating.
4a) Recording technology, advancing all the while, was integrated along the way at various steps.
4b) Along the way, musical performance has signficant 'operational' roles and components introduced. There is a division between 'person as musician playing instrument' and 'person as operator of musical device', the second regarded as somewhat degenerative and secondary to the first, and this division becomes blurred and refocused, and the two varieties more equalized in audience minds, as mutations of the two occur.
5) Musical production is now theoretically fully automatable self-generating self-recording, integrated with a simple internet-interacting script could become self distributing and even self promoting. Fringe elements experimentally exclude humans from the loop entirely.
From the standpoint of 'music as consumable product', at each of these levels, audiences eschewed some advances, embraced some advances only briefly as fads, and embraced others as more enduring.
From the standpoint of 'music as form of expression' where mass audience appeal is not the primary objective, at no point are significant elements discarded-- acoustic instruments of ancient vintage are still played, sometimes alongside computerized instruments. Cello players have not become technologically obsolete (they are arguably not the first place many go to get a cello sound nowadays, however).
Many musicians may tend to scoff at people who play music with computers. Many musicians will tend to scoff at DJs. Elitists among the audience may be attuned to the shifting in the musical performance artist community and generate whatever cliques based on whatever philosophical alignments seem 'coolest'.
what was the question?
0a) Recording technology allowed the capture and distribution of musical performance.
1) Acoustic instruments became electrified. Many considered this heresy, a trick, a cheapening.
2) The logical evolution: semi-automated electrified acoustic paint-by-numbers (SAEAPBN) instruments: the chick-a-click-dinky-dink cha-cha-cha electric organ with 120 presets. There is little argument about the degenerate nature of these instruments, or the woeful nature of the thought that one of these actually induced someone to 'cha cha'.
3) Then, electrified evolved into electronic. No acoustic vibrations. Many robust synthetic instrument systems were built, these were forcibly mated with the SAE(-A)PBN to spawn a number of sophisticated instruments as well as a legion of degenerate consumer products.
4) Semi-automated became more fully automated, the number of programmable parameters was increased, until then complex programmable electronic, fully automatable self-generating.
4a) Recording technology, advancing all the while, was integrated along the way at various steps.
4b) Along the way, musical performance has signficant 'operational' roles and components introduced. There is a division between 'person as musician playing instrument' and 'person as operator of musical device', the second regarded as somewhat degenerative and secondary to the first, and this division becomes blurred and refocused, and the two varieties more equalized in audience minds, as mutations of the two occur.
5) Musical production is now theoretically fully automatable self-generating self-recording, integrated with a simple internet-interacting script could become self distributing and even self promoting. Fringe elements experimentally exclude humans from the loop entirely.
From the standpoint of 'music as consumable product', at each of these levels, audiences eschewed some advances, embraced some advances only briefly as fads, and embraced others as more enduring.
From the standpoint of 'music as form of expression' where mass audience appeal is not the primary objective, at no point are significant elements discarded-- acoustic instruments of ancient vintage are still played, sometimes alongside computerized instruments. Cello players have not become technologically obsolete (they are arguably not the first place many go to get a cello sound nowadays, however).
Many musicians may tend to scoff at people who play music with computers. Many musicians will tend to scoff at DJs. Elitists among the audience may be attuned to the shifting in the musical performance artist community and generate whatever cliques based on whatever philosophical alignments seem 'coolest'.
what was the question?
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:12 pm
good question !mikemc wrote:
what was the question?
Re: Anyone got slated for DJing with Live?
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:25 pm
everything you say I agree. Best post in this topicMarkH wrote:Here in Las Vegas all the major clubs are setup for Serato Scratch Live so DJ's can just bring their laptops and plug in to the club-provided USB cable. The problem I'm seeing now is that becuase Sasha an BT have been using Live so much, most promoters (in the USA) think you're trying to be like Sasha or BT if you show up with a laptop and Live. Although *WE* all know the hidden talent inside of us to create killer DJ sets, it gets lost in translation somwhere between the club, promoter, and music director. The awareness of Live as a DJ tool is everywhere, mostly because of Sasha and BT. Serato somehow crept its way into the clubs and is a staple just about everywhere. No one turns you away for using Serato.
I realize a lot of people say "Fuck what everyone else says!" and you're definitely entitled to that freedom. When you're a serious DJ with a reputation on the line, the last thing you want to be is type-cast as a Sasha wannabe. It makes you look too much like a follower. If you aren't already established and you don't have the powers that be, you'll get pigeon-holed by promoters accusing you of taking shortcuts to becoming a DJ. The perception is the laptop is the DJ, not the person behind it.
I don't like sounding so negative because I like Live, but the truth is that no matter what you do, you need to somehow stand out in order to rise to the top. Live can be your best friend or your worst enemy. Good DJ principles combined with a heck of a lot of talent is the only way to get noticed. With Live, you have to push that envelope even further. I truly believe that over time as more control is integrated into the mixer and less staring at the computer screen is needed, the more people will respect Live as a DJ tool. Serato already has this.
I use live two times only for public DJ gig. Never again
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:42 pm
I'm of the "Fuck what everyone else thinks!" persuasion regarding what the public/promoters/etc think.
You've got to look at yourself in the mirror each morning, and not at some greasy slope-headed promoter whose cock you had to suck.
Do what's in your heart. Follow your instincts. Be original. It's what music is all about.
My opinion only.
You've got to look at yourself in the mirror each morning, and not at some greasy slope-headed promoter whose cock you had to suck.
Do what's in your heart. Follow your instincts. Be original. It's what music is all about.
My opinion only.
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:56 pm
Who the hell cares about promoters. A vast majority of them have no idea what they are talking about. They always seem to be one step behind as well. And using live will make you a Sasha wannabe? What kind of fudder is that?? Sasha was shown the technology through BT, is he a BT wannabe? Are all vinyl djs a wannabe of the first vinyl DJ? Thats BS.
Bottom line is this to recap good posts in this thread becasue this is a good thread:
- having a rep as a producer first, maybe bringing some producer equipment along as well is a good thing. You will be known as a musician
- CD DJs recieved the same BS when they first started using, some of the worlds best are pure CD DJs
- Some people cannot handle change due to technology. Its their loss. This applies everyone from DJing all the way to forming Nations
- Remeber when the electric guitar was first being used, those musicians were called Judas...where would rock be today without the electric guitar?!
- Why spend 10x more money when you dont have to? I would be pissed If i spent 2000 dollars on vinyl equipment and another 3000 dollars on record and have to chug around 50lbs of records for gigs
- And why would you limit yourself to vinyl mixing. Theres mixes you can pull of that just arent possible with vinyl
- MP3 quality above and equal to 192kbs and Vorbis are extremely good, the worlds best were tested on this by DJ MAG and they came to the conclusion you cannot tell the difference
- Even if the laptop "mixes for you" (which it doesnt, just beat matches when you have warped, mixing is much more than just beat matching) who cares! DJing is about building great sets that make musical sense, are harmonious, create flows and put smiles on peoples faces and make em dance or even listen to in rooms for enjoyment. If it isnt about that, it all becomes about the DJ and not the music
- And to quote another Producer/DJ, ALL THE BEST AND FUCK THE REST (cause most of the people at clubs are just there to party and dont have a clue about the scene-including promoters, its up to you to guide em cause youre already one step ahead)
Bottom line is this to recap good posts in this thread becasue this is a good thread:
- having a rep as a producer first, maybe bringing some producer equipment along as well is a good thing. You will be known as a musician
- CD DJs recieved the same BS when they first started using, some of the worlds best are pure CD DJs
- Some people cannot handle change due to technology. Its their loss. This applies everyone from DJing all the way to forming Nations
- Remeber when the electric guitar was first being used, those musicians were called Judas...where would rock be today without the electric guitar?!
- Why spend 10x more money when you dont have to? I would be pissed If i spent 2000 dollars on vinyl equipment and another 3000 dollars on record and have to chug around 50lbs of records for gigs
- And why would you limit yourself to vinyl mixing. Theres mixes you can pull of that just arent possible with vinyl
- MP3 quality above and equal to 192kbs and Vorbis are extremely good, the worlds best were tested on this by DJ MAG and they came to the conclusion you cannot tell the difference
- Even if the laptop "mixes for you" (which it doesnt, just beat matches when you have warped, mixing is much more than just beat matching) who cares! DJing is about building great sets that make musical sense, are harmonious, create flows and put smiles on peoples faces and make em dance or even listen to in rooms for enjoyment. If it isnt about that, it all becomes about the DJ and not the music
- And to quote another Producer/DJ, ALL THE BEST AND FUCK THE REST (cause most of the people at clubs are just there to party and dont have a clue about the scene-including promoters, its up to you to guide em cause youre already one step ahead)
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:03 pm
