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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:46 am
by Machinate
Angstrom wrote:[edit]
@ machinate - no it's not that, think of the 6 bar loop, or even a 7 bar loop over a 4 bar drum base ... it is now impossible to re-start all those clips in sync on the one. The seven bar clip will start on bar 5 while the 4 bar will start on bar 1 - despite me wanting to listen to all of them from 1.1.1 I cant. they maintain an unwanted 'arrangement position'
I dont ever use scenes, so I now have to manually shift select all clips and hit return!
[/edit]
yeah, I hear ya. Ouch.
Supster, it was mainly directed at angstrom. My bad.
Interesting to see how this pans out.
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:13 am
by ak
I am also going back to 5.0.2
when jamming and restarting all my equipment running in sync. i need
to start at 1.1 not somewhere in the middle.
so please change it back like in 5.0.2.
thanks
ak
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:41 am
by Johnisfaster
another vote for an "always start on 1" preference. cause it's just plain stupid the way it is.
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:38 am
by pbajzek
I didn't fully understand this issue until I was rehearsing with some other musicians tonight, but now I get it. Our playing ground to a halt a few times when loops did not behave in a logical manner. The current method makes no sense at all for a performance/session view playing.
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:20 am
by Angstrom
it would make sense if hitting stop once used this new 'arrangement sync'
but hitting stop twice should reset all the clips to play from their start markers.
please give us back a method of restarting all clips from their start markers, this is a crucial feature.
I am going back to 5.02
insanity
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:23 pm
by wavejumper
thank christ for this thread I thought I was going nuts, only upgraded yesterday...please, revert so that when you stop the sequencer it goes back to 1.1.1 and not whatever relative value dictated by the start point of your last recorded clip...i mean what other sequncer does this, i've used an rs7000 and rm1x and unless you explicitly set it to start at an abitrary value it always starts at 1.1.1...that's intuitive. i'll avoid the expletives but between this and the orange dot you've managed to add 2 useless counter-intuitive features. thanks, going back to 2 until you sort it this out. if ever. too bad cause you had fixed the dodgy arpeggiator on this one...man, unbelievable.
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:56 pm
by Tarekith
Ditto, I was just playing with 5.03 last night and could not figure out what the hell was going on. Hadn't seen this thread yet and was baffled as to why my clips were suddenly playing all at the wrong time.
Very frustrating that almost each new version of Live has such fundamental changes (ie, CTRL+E to CTRL+R for naming), and that we really aren't warned ahead of time about these. The orange dot issue I kinda see the point of, but this one baffles me.
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:36 pm
by jbible
Honestly I could find this come in handy on occasion during some improv jams and what not. But in most sets when I am trying out clips together etc I wish it would just start at the begining. I have found this very difficult to get used to. It has kind of thrown off my workflow a bit.
Abes. Maybe there could be a compromise. You could have a 'misc' option to choose between the two behaviors?
nerds
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:42 pm
by wavejumper
you can almost picture the head of development, "oh, this has been broken since day one and I'll be the one who fixes it". bang.
It's like if someone in Roland developed a fix in the 80's so that the 303 sounded like a REAL bass...or the 808 like real drums...very useful, but kills the feel of it, doesn't it?
Did Robert Henke agree on this? He knows techno, he makes good techno, did this change make any sense to you? If someone explains to me a way to incorporate this feature in my worflow, which consists of using mostly session view and jamming with it I'm willing to try. This sounds like something useful only if you use arrangement as your main tool...
the fact that this wes not spotted or just plain ignored during beta/qa just makes you wonder...
Re: nerds
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:43 pm
by supster
wavejumper wrote:Did Robert Henke agree on this?
i doubt it.
.
workaround
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:35 pm
by wavejumper
in the unfortunate event this is not going to be fixed can anyone suggest workarounds? the only thing i find works so far is to trigger scenes rather than using the space bar.
but let's say I want to fix the clip that i recorded while jamming, starting say at 3.1.1. now this clip will inevitably have as starting point of 3.1.1 or whatever, can i do anything to override this so that it starts at 1.1.1.?
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:22 pm
by funk313
MAAAAN SHEEEET!! I havent had the patience to read thru the post asbout this topic.
All i GODDAMN know is that Live doesnt react the same way as it used to do in 5.02.
And IT TOTALLY KILLs my friggin workflow when recording and playin back clips..
I dont have the patience nor the time to start puttin my head into how Live reacts to clips THIS time again..
GODDAMN IT!! AAAAAAAARrrg. Of course I had the courage to just erase 5.02 from my mac. I should never have done that. 5.02 worked flawless with my setup everything was sweet as cherrypie and now THIS!! Could it be posibble to download 5.02 again or something this new clip behavior is driving me ABSOLUTLY NUTTERS for crying out loud!!!!!!!
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:28 pm
by funk313
Stefan Haller wrote:Sorry for the delay, I'm just back from vacation.
What you are describing is not a bug; we consider the previous behaviour to be broken, and fixed it in 5.0.3, in our opinion.
The details may be a bit hard to follow, but I'll try to explain what's going on:
When you stopped and restarted a song (which implies a song position jump from where you stopped to where you are restarting from) in the old version, all running session clips would resume as if they had been fired at song time 1.1.1 (regardless of when they really had been fired). Which means that if you were restarting the song from the beginning, all clips would start at their start markers, which might seem reasonable in a way; however, if you started at a later position in the song, the clips would start somewhere in the middle at a more or less arbitrary position, which is completely broken. In either case, the clips would lose they relative offsets against each other, which we considered the biggest problem.
In 5.0.3, we changed the behaviour so that the clips retain their fire times (relative to the arranger) when the song is stopped and restarted. For example, if a clip was fired at bar 5, and you stop the song and restart it from bar 6, the clip will start playing one bar after its start marker. This does mean that clips may sometimes start in the middle (depending on when they were fired) even if you start the song from 1.1.1; on the other hand, all clips keep their relative offsets that way.
For those of you who complained about this change, I'd like to know why exactly it's a problem for you.
Cuz it KILLS the FEEL of Live.. WE JUST WANT IT TO START ON THE ONE (1) !!
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:10 pm
by pbajzek
Angstrom makes a good point about hitting "stop" twice. In fact, that's what I found myself doing intuitively.
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:19 pm
by telekom
I'm gobsmacked... I have been away so haven't actually tried 5.0.3 yet. If the above is how it behaves then I'll be using 5.0.2 instead. As another user who jams with a live band alluded to... it must totally confuse most musicians. I have never heard anyone say "Right let's start on the three..." I start on the one. I want Live to do the same...
uuurrrggghh