Ableton Forum

RopeyPunter wrote:lol

a guitar has those handy things called frets ...so you can see where to put your finger(s) .....a theramin ....man .....good luck trying to play 'bah bah blacksheep' on that . I'd like one someday, to use for making CV control data...I doubt I'd devote the immense amount of time it would take to play something meaningful with it

i'm not saying playing the theramin doesn't require skill, just that the theramin STILL hasn't really been accepted all that widly. guitars can do a lot more, sonically, than a theramin. with a theramin, you get the 'space invaders' sound and kind of a weird glass armonica sound and that's pretty much it. it's still on the fringes. mentioning theramins in the same breath as guitars in a discussion about accepted instruments just doesn't make sense.

RopeyPunter wrote:lol

a guitar has those handy things called frets ...so you can see where to put your finger(s) .....a theramin ....man .....good luck trying to play 'bah bah blacksheep' on that . I'd like one someday, to use for making CV control data...I doubt I'd devote the immense amount of time it would take to play something meaningful with it

Well, I wouldn't try to play "bah bah blacksheep" on the tabla, but that doesn't mean it isn't a musical instrument.

pulsoc wrote:

snowtires wrote:

pulsoc wrote: lol, ok trollie, enjoy!

sweet, i made you use internet slang. that must mean i'm winning

Yes, you're winning! Yay!

"you think i'm not quick enough? this guy thinks i'm not quick enough, well i got news for you, i AM quick enough... cock boy."

i would so get this is they give u the software to do the things they do with it...

snowtires wrote:

pulsoc wrote:

snowtires wrote: sweet, i made you use internet slang. that must mean i'm winning

Yes, you're winning! Yay!

"you think i'm not quick enough? this guy thinks i'm not quick enough, well i got news for you, i AM quick enough... cock boy."

Are you quoting yourself, or is that from something?

Nah yer pretty quick, but you took what I said out of context. Guitar, saxophone, these were all considered psuedo instruments when ppl started using them. The difference between all of these and a laptop is...what? Well, the only one I can think of is that a physical instrument creates vibrations that emanate directly from the devices being manipulated. Once you introduce electricity (via electric guitar, synthesizer, etc.) then the relationship begins changing, data becomes electrified and interpreted. As the systems become more complex, with MAX and Live and whatever, the musician becomes responsible for arrays, matrices, relations, etc.

But it's still making music. And hell, someone that can code somehting that sounds cool in Csound is a musician in my book.

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

pulsoc wrote:

snowtires wrote:

pulsoc wrote: Yes, you're winning! Yay!

"you think i'm not quick enough? this guy thinks i'm not quick enough, well i got news for you, i AM quick enough... cock boy."

Are you quoting yourself, or is that from something?

Nah yer pretty quick, but you took what I said out of context. Guitar, saxophone, these were all considered psuedo instruments when ppl started using them. The difference between all of these and a laptop is...what? Well, the only one I can think of is that a physical instrument creates vibrations that emanate directly from the devices being manipulated. Once you introduce electricity (via electric guitar, synthesizer, etc.) then the relationship begins changing, data becomes electrified and interpreted. As the systems become more complex, with MAX and Live and whatever, the musician becomes responsible for arrays, matrices, relations, etc.

But it's still making music. And hell, someone that can code somehting that sounds cool in Csound is a musician in my book.

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

it's from a movie, harold and kumar go to white castle. the one guy couldn't think of anything snappy to say so he just kept repeating the other guy's insults. i really don't see a laptop as an instrument. musical instruments all have one specific function - to create music. except for musical saws and spoons. and washboards. a laptop is a tool used in the creation of music, but not an instrument in itself.

don't get me wrong, two of my favorite bands are telefon tel aviv and nine inch nails (i'm not goth, i just started listening to the downward spiral again, it's a great album) and their music is as computerized as you can get, but they still play instruments live, they record themselves playing into the songs, they're musicians, they're not just laptop monkeys who couldn't come up with a tune to save their lives, so they have to piece their songs together from already written songs.

i can't count how many times i've heard a dance remix of a song that completely disregards the original key of the song. to an actual musician, when those vocals come in a half step off from where they should be, it's like nails on a chalkboard.

snowtires wrote:i really don't see a laptop as an instrument. musical instruments all have one specific function - to create music. except for musical saws and spoons. and washboards. a laptop is a tool used in the creation of music, but not an instrument in itself.

So, you've already pointed out that, in fact, musical instruments don't all have one specific function. But what if you consider the software to be the instrument anyway? Live seems to fit your definition...

(Oh and not forgetting the cardboard box that Ring Starr played on the odd Beatles record. )

snowtires wrote:i can't count how many times i've heard a dance remix of a song that completely disregards the original key of the song. to an actual musician, when those vocals come in a half step off from where they should be, it's like nails on a chalkboard.

I know what you mean. But the fact that some (presumably non-playing) producers aren't very musical doesn't demonstrate that all are. I heard a rubbish singer / guitarist in the tube (subway) the other day, but I'd have to be pretty stupid to assume from that that all singers /guitarists are less musical than any other performers.

This is the thread hijack to rule all thread hijacks

snowtires wrote:...musical instruments all have one specific function - to create music. except for musical saws and spoons. and washboards...

Nancy Wilson from Heart used her guitar to finish a nail sticking out of the stage once. Saw it in a video and everything.

ZZ Top used their fuzzy guitars to buff their nuts. Saw it in a video too.

The keyboardist from Prince's band can take out your spleen on his keyboard.

There are lots of other uses for instruments than music.

snowtires wrote:

RopeyPunter wrote:lol

a guitar has those handy things called frets ...so you can see where to put your finger(s) .....a theramin ....man .....good luck trying to play 'bah bah blacksheep' on that . I'd like one someday, to use for making CV control data...I doubt I'd devote the immense amount of time it would take to play something meaningful with it

i'm not saying playing the theramin doesn't require skill, just that the theramin STILL hasn't really been accepted all that widly. guitars can do a lot more, sonically, than a theramin. with a theramin, you get the 'space invaders' sound and kind of a weird glass armonica sound and that's pretty much it. it's still on the fringes. mentioning theramins in the same breath as guitars in a discussion about accepted instruments just doesn't make sense.

i wasn't refering to you, I was refering to electric guitars being pidgeon holed in the same category as theramins, it makes as little sense to me as it does to you, for the reasons I put across in that quote

pulsoc wrote:

RopeyPunter wrote:lol

a guitar has those handy things called frets ...so you can see where to put your finger(s) .....a theramin ....man .....good luck trying to play 'bah bah blacksheep' on that . I'd like one someday, to use for making CV control data...I doubt I'd devote the immense amount of time it would take to play something meaningful with it

Well, I wouldn't try to play "bah bah blacksheep" on the tabla, but that doesn't mean it isn't a musical instrument.

thats exactly the type of semantical round-and-round-we-go bullshit I was refering to, ....anyways you may not try and play bah bah blacksheep on a tabla, but you did categorise theramins and electric guitars as the same in terms of being different to an acoustic instrument...which is at least twice as stupid.

RopeyPunter wrote:

pulsoc wrote:

RopeyPunter wrote:lol

a guitar has those handy things called frets ...so you can see where to put your finger(s) .....a theramin ....man .....good luck trying to play 'bah bah blacksheep' on that . I'd like one someday, to use for making CV control data...I doubt I'd devote the immense amount of time it would take to play something meaningful with it

Well, I wouldn't try to play "bah bah blacksheep" on the tabla, but that doesn't mean it isn't a musical instrument.

thats exactly the type of semantical round-and-round-we-go bullshit I was refering to, ....anyways you may not try and play bah bah blacksheep on a tabla, but you did categorise theramins and electric guitars as the same in terms of being different to an acoustic instrument...which is at least twice as stupid.

Oh my douching lord of mercy help me/

Initially I wrote that guitars and theramins, when introduced, met with scepticism from various critics and "musicians" using established instruments. The sax was the same way. The point of this being, new musical instruments come into existence not too infrequently, and they are met with skepticism as to their authenticity (and by extension, whether the practitioners are "musicians" or not).

Then I used the electric guitar (and electric ANYTHING) to talk about "separating" the sound from the action performed.

Ahh who gives a fuck/

snowtires wrote:

RopeyPunter wrote:lol

a guitar has those handy things called frets ...so you can see where to put your finger(s) .....a theramin ....man .....good luck trying to play 'bah bah blacksheep' on that . I'd like one someday, to use for making CV control data...I doubt I'd devote the immense amount of time it would take to play something meaningful with it

i'm not saying playing the theramin doesn't require skill, just that the theramin STILL hasn't really been accepted all that widly. guitars can do a lot more, sonically, than a theramin. with a theramin, you get the 'space invaders' sound and kind of a weird glass armonica sound and that's pretty much it. it's still on the fringes. mentioning theramins in the same breath as guitars in a discussion about accepted instruments just doesn't make sense.

Ok, you're officially an idiot.

space invaders sound? good god, what a philistine.

The theremin was one of the first electronic music instruments. to suggest that a guitar can do "more, sonically" is simply foolish. Either instrument can acheive virtually the same "sonic capacity" if you allow them.

I think the distinction that you are trying to make, is that the guitar is easy to play, compared to the Theremin.

But honestly, its one of the hardest instruments to play, thats ever been invented, do you think there's gonna be a lot of repetoire for it?

computo wrote:

snowtires wrote:

RopeyPunter wrote:lol

a guitar has those handy things called frets ...so you can see where to put your finger(s) .....a theramin ....man .....good luck trying to play 'bah bah blacksheep' on that . I'd like one someday, to use for making CV control data...I doubt I'd devote the immense amount of time it would take to play something meaningful with it

i'm not saying playing the theramin doesn't require skill, just that the theramin STILL hasn't really been accepted all that widly. guitars can do a lot more, sonically, than a theramin. with a theramin, you get the 'space invaders' sound and kind of a weird glass armonica sound and that's pretty much it. it's still on the fringes. mentioning theramins in the same breath as guitars in a discussion about accepted instruments just doesn't make sense.

Ok, you're officially an idiot.

space invaders sound? good god, what a philistine.

The theremin was one of the first electronic music instruments. to suggest that a guitar can do "more, sonically" is simply foolish. Either instrument can acheive virtually the same "sonic capacity" if you allow them.

I think the distinction that you are trying to make, is that the guitar is easy to play, compared to the Theremin.

But honestly, its one of the hardest instruments to play, thats ever been invented, do you think there's gonna be a lot of repetoire for it?

or there's no music written for it because it sounds lame? possibly that. and did you just call me a philistine? what is this, the bible?

snowtires wrote:

pulsoc wrote:

snowtires wrote: "you think i'm not quick enough? this guy thinks i'm not quick enough, well i got news for you, i AM quick enough... cock boy."

Are you quoting yourself, or is that from something?

Nah yer pretty quick, but you took what I said out of context. Guitar, saxophone, these were all considered psuedo instruments when ppl started using them. The difference between all of these and a laptop is...what? Well, the only one I can think of is that a physical instrument creates vibrations that emanate directly from the devices being manipulated. Once you introduce electricity (via electric guitar, synthesizer, etc.) then the relationship begins changing, data becomes electrified and interpreted. As the systems become more complex, with MAX and Live and whatever, the musician becomes responsible for arrays, matrices, relations, etc.

But it's still making music. And hell, someone that can code somehting that sounds cool in Csound is a musician in my book.

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

it's from a movie, harold and kumar go to white castle. the one guy couldn't think of anything snappy to say so he just kept repeating the other guy's insults. i really don't see a laptop as an instrument. musical instruments all have one specific function - to create music. except for musical saws and spoons. and washboards. a laptop is a tool used in the creation of music, but not an instrument in itself.

don't get me wrong, two of my favorite bands are telefon tel aviv and nine inch nails (i'm not goth, i just started listening to the downward spiral again, it's a great album) and their music is as computerized as you can get, but they still play instruments live, they record themselves playing into the songs, they're musicians, they're not just laptop monkeys who couldn't come up with a tune to save their lives, so they have to piece their songs together from already written songs.

i can't count how many times i've heard a dance remix of a song that completely disregards the original key of the song. to an actual musician, when those vocals come in a half step off from where they should be, it's like nails on a chalkboard.

jeez, the servile self indulgent bullshit just streams out of you doesnt it?

I think what you are complaining about is your hardassed opinions on what music SHOULD be, and apparently, that means it should appear in nothing but its original form.

A half step? who the fuck are you? the arbiter of all that is tasteless and bad in music production?

You're really making educated musicians look like utter morons, by trying to claim that detuning vocals in a remix is offensive.

"to an actual musician"

Let me know when one enters the room....

w