Conspiracy theorists combat this!

[Jackal and Hyde]

I believe it was a big plane that hit the pentagon. First off, a cruise missle could not have taken out (with numerous witnesses) 5 steel reinforced light polls along the interstate without exploding itself and a cruise missle would not hit light polls in the first place, its too intelligent. Secondly, imo, a smaller jet would have crashed very quickly if one of its wings clipped a steel light post going 3 - 400 mph let alone 5 of them in a row. And if this is a conspiracy, why in the hell would the black ops people behind it make it this ridiculously difficult for themselves; and risk this controversy? Who would do that? "Ok, were planning this 9/11 thing months in advance and I'm voting we use 2 757's to fly into the Twin Towers, and were going to use a small Global Hawk jet or a cruise missle on the pentagon". lol < Doesnt make sense. If it was a conspiracy, black opps would have remote flown the 757 filled with passengers into the pentagon to keep thier story straight. And if it was a conspiracy, it would be ridiculous to assume that they would come up with a story of 4 hijacked 757's months in advance and then plan to use a missile/lear jet on one of the targets. Militarly speaking, I think even Private Gomer Pile would be against that plan.

[D DAS]

i understand that point very much J & H makes sense. a year ago i thought a plane hit it as well. once my dad convinced me to read some of the research on this subject i changed my point of view. there are things with what was said happened that do not add up, just like there are things with the other story that do not add up.

i do not get why there was no wreckage from such a large plane found at the site. there have been many plane wrecks in history and some fell from much higher altitudes at faster speeds, but there was always wreckage found. seats, engines, bodies, etc. how did all of this just vaporize in the wreck? leaving one small engine that does not belong to a 757 or anything near that large class of planes.

everything that happened that day was fishy, at least the stories being told are fishy. if the story was planes were crashed into the towers and explosives were used to bring them down i would buy it no questions asked, a plane flew into the pentagon and here are the remains of the plane, sure i believe you. but that is not what is being said happened and is being shown. why was the collapse of tower seven kept so hush hush. most people do not even know that 3 towers came down in NY that day. tower 7 was not even hit by a plane, it had minor fires. the current publicly accepted theory of 9-11 has many holes in it. many holes. something is being kept secret from that day and a full investigation needs to happen. and do not say that the 9-11 commission report is a full investigation. fema was given 600,000 dollars to investigate these attacks and a lot was not looked into. ground zero in NY should still be roped off and considered a crime scene. instead they cleaned up the biggest crime scene the world has ever scene as quickly as possible and shipped all the eveidence off to scrap yards over seas. what is that all about. the steel should have at least been tested for explosives residue, don't you think?

[Machinesworking]

I believe it was a big plane that hit the pentagon.

Where are the holes for the engines then? EVERY picture of the entrance hole shows only a single round hole. Take a minute to think about how heavy and solid jet engines are, and imagine NO holes at point of impact with the pentagon, just a single round hole....
I don't know exactly what went on at the pentagon, but it is fucking strange, that's all.

Also, if you really look at all this intelligence gathering from all sides, you still have to come to the conclusion that there was plenty of warning from plenty of sources that something was going to happen, and not a goddamn thing was done about it, in fact people were fired, possible evidence was destroyed, and this was not at all coming from anti government sources, CIA, FBI etc.

My feelings at the time of 911 are still the same that they are today. I think they knew, and decided to let it happen. to me anyway, the fact that the two planes headed towards government targets were largely ineffective, yet the twin towers were hit point blank.
That the US Air force had no clue, that they let not one, but TWO highjacked commercial airliners hit one of the most densely populated cities in the USA, it's just insane.....
That the next day there was discussion about going into Iraq first..........
Basically, sure the evidence is poorly gathered, but the holes that are pointed out are fucking huge!

I still cannot believe that both black boxes on both planes were not recovered, yet they found the highjackers paper passport in the rubble......

[robtronik]

all you mechanical engineers and physicists are quite impressive!

I love how the evidence of the conspiracy outweighs the eye witnesseses to the events. Surely you must be right!

LOL.

rob.

[Taiis]

Actually note how far the police car moves in the two frames - then note how far the plane moves in two frames. Considering there are an equal amount of time in between two frames - the police car is actually moving faster than the plane.

[Tha Gooch]

i have seen this doco, the only question i kept asking which the doco didnt really cover - maybe in teh last ten minutes where i fell asleep, but WHY??

WHY? would the american government do all this, by creating this alledged cover up what did they gain?

when you cant answer these questions all the rest seems a bit far fetched?

in the doco they spend a considerable amount of tiem tryin to show explosions happening before impact of the building etc etc... its all too close to call.

the pentagon one was suss as tho. but again what did the government have to gain by creating the cover up?

[Jackal and Hyde]

i understand that point very much J & H makes sense. a year ago i thought a plane hit it as well. once my dad convinced me to read some of the research on this subject i changed my point of view. there are things with what was said happened that do not add up, just like there are things with the other story that do not add up.

i do not get why there was no wreckage from such a large plane found at the site. there have been many plane wrecks in history and some fell from much higher altitudes at faster speeds, but there was always wreckage found. seats, engines, bodies, etc. how did all of this just vaporize in the wreck? leaving one small engine that does not belong to a 757 or anything near that large class of planes.

everything that happened that day was fishy, at least the stories being told are fishy. if the story was planes were crashed into the towers and explosives were used to bring them down i would buy it no questions asked, a plane flew into the pentagon and here are the remains of the plane, sure i believe you. but that is not what is being said happened and is being shown. why was the collapse of tower seven kept so hush hush. most people do not even know that 3 towers came down in NY that day. tower 7 was not even hit by a plane, it had minor fires. the current publicly accepted theory of 9-11 has many holes in it. many holes. something is being kept secret from that day and a full investigation needs to happen. and do not say that the 9-11 commission report is a full investigation. fema was given 600,000 dollars to investigate these attacks and a lot was not looked into. ground zero in NY should still be roped off and considered a crime scene. instead they cleaned up the biggest crime scene the world has ever scene as quickly as possible and shipped all the eveidence off to scrap yards over seas. what is that all about. the steel should have at least been tested for explosives residue, don't you think?

Well, here's what happens when a smaller jet hits a single light post going slowly on final approach. (Faster would be more devastating) > http://aviation-safety.net/database/rec ... 20041122-0


If you look on the NTSB crash sites, you'll find several examples of crashes that resulted in total annihilation, for example > http://www.planecrashinfo.com/w740303.htm no wings, no engines no pieces of steel bigger that 3 feet long. And > http://www.utopiax.org/911/ilyu2.jpg Same with the value jet disaster, flight 93 and many others where the out come was basically aluminium confetti on the ground and picking up human remains with an eye dropper.

This image imo makes the "missile" theory obviously absurd. I find it hard to believe that the missle hit the first light pole and went hard left to get the second one then made a sharp turn right to hit the third one (an so on) >




Here it is to scale >




I dont know what to believe. Do I want to believe that our Gov had anything to do with this? Of course not. My only point was that I do not believe it was a small craft or missile that hit the Pentagon. And the "engine holes"? If you look at many of these ntsb pics; even like the 93 crash (in a grassy field) there are no "engine holes" left in the ground, only center crater and partial wing impressions and thats on grass, not solid rock/steel reinforced concrete pentagon wall. It has nothing to do with "melting tables" like in alot of these pentagon conspiracy sites, its just physics. Even as proved on NTSB sites, titanium alloy will disintegrate under the right conditions (engines included). And if it was a 290,000 pound 757 going 500 mph hitting a solid rock wall, I'd def think that that would be one of those conditions.

[DrainBamage]

i have seen this doco, the only question i kept asking which the doco didnt really cover - maybe in teh last ten minutes where i fell asleep, but WHY??

WHY? would the american government do all this, by creating this alledged cover up what did they gain?

when you cant answer these questions all the rest seems a bit far fetched?

in the doco they spend a considerable amount of tiem tryin to show explosions happening before impact of the building etc etc... its all too close to call.

the pentagon one was suss as tho. but again what did the government have to gain by creating the cover up?

The doco talks about not asking why or how could certain awful actions be carried out, it suggests that you just ask if it all adds up. It's about questioning the 9/11 Comission Report and the actions leading up to September 11, 2001. In light of a, b, c, ...xxxxx, yyyyy, zzzz, what's up?!?!

I can't believe they made a MOVIE out of one of the 9/11 flights, I pity the fool who would WANT to see that.

[Meef Chaloin]

all you mechanical engineers and physicists are quite impressive!

I love how the evidence of the conspiracy outweighs the eye witnesseses to the events. Surely you must be right!

LOL.

rob.

Are they the same witnesses that said it was 20ft above, 200 ft above, a huge airline, a single jet, black, white, a missile, an aeroplane?.... hardly credible with so much difference in stories.
Why ridicule what is common sense? you dont have to be an engineer to understand that the story isnt right. And yes, many physicists and boeing engineers have publically said that the wreckage found was not from an airliner and was not even from the SAME plane.

So how did the terrorists manage to get to the pentagon in the first place? The have a defence base 10 miles away and knew it was heading in that direction when it was at least 60miles away. An airlineer going in to a no fly zone over one one of the most protected parts of the United States, and no jets scrambled? And why did NORAD stand down? There was a lot of time and notice to do something, considering they scramble jets for much less dangerous events.

And the 'evidence' of the lamp posts?...haha did you actually look to see what direction they were knocked down...yep AWAY from the pentagon. AWAY from the pentagon. If a plane was as low as they say it would have knocked them down towards the pentagon.

This video is complete crap, it shows nothing and proves even less.

oh and who said that any of the passengers were killed by black project operators? Its far more likely, if they didnt go in to the pentagon, that they were kept alive to be participants in the said black project experiments. They could still be alive today.

[Meef Chaloin]

i have seen this doco, the only question i kept asking which the doco didnt really cover - maybe in teh last ten minutes where i fell asleep, but WHY??

WHY? would the american government do all this, by creating this alledged cover up what did they gain?

when you cant answer these questions all the rest seems a bit far fetched?

in the doco they spend a considerable amount of tiem tryin to show explosions happening before impact of the building etc etc... its all too close to call.

the pentagon one was suss as tho. but again what did the government have to gain by creating the cover up?

You really need that answering? Who are the ONLY people to gain something from the attack? What did al queda gain? Absolutely nothing except a few invasions and worldwide skin deep prejudice.

It may be news for some & hard to believe for others but some people make a lot of money from war and terror attacks. Firstly war benefits those who are involved with the arms trade, if there are no wars who will buy tanks, guns, and other equipment? War is BIG BUSINESS for some, there's no conspiracy in that.

Why terror attacks? Well what have we seen since? huge extra spending on 'defence' (quite likely to be cyphoned), more power to the military to merge with the police, ammendments to the constitution that shit on what the country stood for in the first place, privacy invasion by wire taps on innocent public, dna database, ID cards, talk of 'chips', a war on Iraq, Afganistan and now Iran. It doesnt take that much to realise that the whoever is involved with the combination of oil and defence/arms trade/military equipment manufacturers are making a hell of a lot of money from these attacks. And all this from a president who cheated his way in to power. twice. hmmm

That's not to mention what it did to the publically psychologically. Its the oldest trick in the book, create fear amongst people and you are able to control them. Look at Niccolo Machiavelli's The Prince, & the philosopher Hegal and you will realise that these ideas are not new or fantasical, they are very real ways of governance that have been used countless times. The conspiracy is that governments are here for our protection and always do the best by us. Again Niccolo Machiavelli makes it quite apparent that this is an illusion. Governance is big money and big business is not ethical.

[Meef Chaloin]

“[The corporate mass-media] serve to divert the unwashed masses and reinforce the basic social values: passivity, submissiveness to authority, the overriding virtue of greed and personal gain, lack of concern for others, fear of real or imagined enemies, etc. The goal is to keep the bewildered herd bewildered. It's unnecessary for them to trouble themselves with what's happening in the world. In fact, it's undesirable — if they see too much of reality, they may set themselves to change it.”
— Noam Chomsky

[D DAS]

my boss is skeptical about a lot of these theories, he does think a lot of it does not make sense, especially tower 7's collapse. but my boss has been a pilot his entire life, he has over 6,000 hours in the air and two things he said from a pilots point of view is 1) how did those "terrorist" who trained in these little flight schools find their targets. he claims this would be a very difficult task in a comercial jet liner or a cesna. and 2) even with the highjacked planes transponders turned off, they are still on radar, so say you have ten planes on the radar screen for an area and two of those planes do not have their transponders on, then those two are obviously your hi jacked planes and those are the ones you intercept and shoot down. they had jets scrambled for two hours and they could not locate one of those planes, i don't think so. norad sent those jets looking out over the atlantic ocean saying it was an attack from over seas. that is BS. Two years ago a small private aircraft flew into the no fly zone in washington dc, within 5 minutes they had 4 F-16's locate the target. Under 5 minutes! Their radar was working fine for that, and that was a little plane.

there is a major conference in Chicago this summer that is dedicated to these issues. some very respectable engineers,physicists,professors and others are attending to discuss these topics. i doubt these people would all waste their valuable time for som BS gathering, they wouldn't. they are meeting because something wrong has happened and is being covered up.

what would the government gain by doing this someone asked, lots is your answer. financial gains and power gains. this is not the government doing this, meaning congress etc. this is most likely funded privatley by a private corporation. which is what the us is run by now, corporations. 9-11 gave the green light for a war that is making corporations in the business of war billions and billions of dollars. if you are a greed and power hungry individual do you think a few thousand people is a fair price to gain more power and billions of dollars? of course you do. but that is hard for people to swallow, but they easily digest the story that arabs from far away will do all this for nothing. there are crazies out there and some of them have power. look what happened in WW2. and we were supporters of nazi germany at the time. a lot of insurance money was payed for the collapse of tower 7 and that 47 story building was home to a lot of important financial documents, a major security firm that was located in tower 7 (the same tower that some how collapsed from smal structure fires) that firm had thousands of case records for enron and world com, all of those case files are gone.

take a look at this video and tell me this building was not demolished. keep in mind this building was not struck by a plane. it had small fires on several floors

http://www.911research.com/wtc/evidence ... lapse2.mpg

[Meef Chaloin]

Larry Goldstein has publically admitted that he gave permission to pull the tower down.

An interesting twist is the CIA guy who had his first day on 9/11 and was stationed in the buildings.

[Machinesworking]

there is a major conference in Chicago this summer that is dedicated to these issues. some very respectable engineers,physicists,professors and others are attending to discuss these topics. i doubt these people would all waste their valuable time for som BS gathering, they wouldn't. they are meeting because something wrong has happened and is being covered up.

I guess that's the main point of concern I have with all this too. I simply can't denny that through all the conspiracy theories, and half baked ideas, there is something very wrong with how this all played out.
Part of any good psy ops operation like this would be to undermine the left wing theorists, make any attempt at understanding look like a conspiracy theory, throw multiple diversionary irregularities into the plot, that make for questionable evidence.

Looking at the video of GWB at the pre school after hearing about the attacks.... the only rational explanation for his behavior is that A: He knew it was going down, it wasn't his idea, but he was aware... and B: He was nervous about upcoming events, how this would play out, basically, would they be caught?
It just doesn't seem like the kind of response one would have if they knew nothing, it's just my opinion though.

[sqook]

i have seen this doco, the only question i kept asking which the doco didnt really cover - maybe in teh last ten minutes where i fell asleep, but WHY??

WHY? would the american government do all this, by creating this alledged cover up what did they gain?

According to loose change 2, they did it for a bunch of gold stored underneath one of the towers. That, and geo-political engineering of a new world order... or something like that... I dunno. Ask computo, maybe?