Haha, I'm ready, I still have my old Wildcat BBS backup on disks somewhere, along with Terminate and Rencom+ and "Silly Little Mail Reader"sweetjesus wrote:Back to bbs days.
Net neutrality lost :(:(:(:(:
I think the vast majority of folks are being totally unrealistic about the issue. Do you really think this gives core network providers the right to block access to competing websites? Of course not. There are antitrust laws to handle that.
All internet traffic is not equal and thus, should not be treated equal.
The internet is a resilient network. If a link goes down, the data will automatically get re-routed through another path. But we can't forget that the link is down and that bandwidth is no longer available. Events like this can cause congestion and when that happens something has to give. So what do we drop? Your call to 911 or http request a web site tracking a storm? Or do we drop packets (which will be retransmitted via TCP) classified as an iTunes Music Store download?
Loss sensitive services like VOIP have enjoyed the fact that the North American (and possibly European?) network has significant extra capacity. The additional capacity came from the internet boom where you had loads of funding for _anything_ related to the internet and the core providers like AT&T trying to compete with the seemingly ultra efficient Worldcom. Then the 'build it now and we'll figure out how to make money later' business model fell apart and Worldcom was shown to be a fraud. Now companies (the ones that are still alive) have to think before spending money. But guess what? The amount of data going over the internet never really stopped growing. And with video over the net on deck as the next big application the extra capasity is going to fade away.
Some core providers are already doing this as well. Global Crossing already has a three tier QOS strategy. They aim to provide top notch performance to all tiers but when something has to give, they want to do it intelligently, not at random.
The internet is evolving and it isn't even near it's potential. Everything will move to the internet. All of our phone calls, all of the TV, all of our home security systems, a heart monitor, etc, etc, etc. At some point we will all have just an IP pipe running several different applications to our home. Different type of traffic are more critical then others. Forcing all traffic to be treated the same would cap it's potential significantly. I happy this bill was shot down.
All internet traffic is not equal and thus, should not be treated equal.
The internet is a resilient network. If a link goes down, the data will automatically get re-routed through another path. But we can't forget that the link is down and that bandwidth is no longer available. Events like this can cause congestion and when that happens something has to give. So what do we drop? Your call to 911 or http request a web site tracking a storm? Or do we drop packets (which will be retransmitted via TCP) classified as an iTunes Music Store download?
Loss sensitive services like VOIP have enjoyed the fact that the North American (and possibly European?) network has significant extra capacity. The additional capacity came from the internet boom where you had loads of funding for _anything_ related to the internet and the core providers like AT&T trying to compete with the seemingly ultra efficient Worldcom. Then the 'build it now and we'll figure out how to make money later' business model fell apart and Worldcom was shown to be a fraud. Now companies (the ones that are still alive) have to think before spending money. But guess what? The amount of data going over the internet never really stopped growing. And with video over the net on deck as the next big application the extra capasity is going to fade away.
Some core providers are already doing this as well. Global Crossing already has a three tier QOS strategy. They aim to provide top notch performance to all tiers but when something has to give, they want to do it intelligently, not at random.
The internet is evolving and it isn't even near it's potential. Everything will move to the internet. All of our phone calls, all of the TV, all of our home security systems, a heart monitor, etc, etc, etc. At some point we will all have just an IP pipe running several different applications to our home. Different type of traffic are more critical then others. Forcing all traffic to be treated the same would cap it's potential significantly. I happy this bill was shot down.
heh, I guess we live in fairyland where greed & corruption dont exist, and this is all transpiring for our general good...
yes thats right
the most noble ideas and well thought-out ethosisis, such as democracy, only serve as giant smoke-screens for something really, really rotten. Not necessarily intentionaly, I dunno...just one of human's many flaws - corruption, selfishness, greed....etc. Doesnt matter how grand an idea might be, if you ask a human to curate it will turn into a hellish den. People in power shouldnt have financial interests, or be given a luxurious lifestyles.
what I'm saying is, I'm cynical and I think yer a bit naive.
not to mention most horribble things are done in baby-steps and precedents...inches turning to miles...
yes thats right
the most noble ideas and well thought-out ethosisis, such as democracy, only serve as giant smoke-screens for something really, really rotten. Not necessarily intentionaly, I dunno...just one of human's many flaws - corruption, selfishness, greed....etc. Doesnt matter how grand an idea might be, if you ask a human to curate it will turn into a hellish den. People in power shouldnt have financial interests, or be given a luxurious lifestyles.
what I'm saying is, I'm cynical and I think yer a bit naive.
not to mention most horribble things are done in baby-steps and precedents...inches turning to miles...
It's really funny how people scream and moan and complain that freedom is taken away from them, when they lose a vote for the gov't to regulate more and more of this country. Stop being stupid. If you think for one second that greedy companies are going to take away your internet rights or block content, you are dead wrong. If a provider did this they would lose customers. And another guy around the corner will offer access cheaper that has no restrictions. They will get all of the customers. And Ceo's, being greedy as you think they are, will not let that happen. The republicans want the market to figure this out and I agree. We don't need even more gov't control, we need more freedom. Democrats stop trying to tell me how I can do buisiness, it's supposed to be a free country, not a socialist state, where we try to take from the rich and give to the poor. Get over it you idiots. It's really amazing that the democrats just do not get this simple fact, if you give people choices, and you let consumers choose, things are ALWAYS better than when gov't does it.
Thru commerce is spreads tho....USA, create all the laws you want, but dont expect the rest of the world to follow.
Like Title 18 ~ 2257.... Every porn producer in every country follows that
law. Why? Not because they live in the US and are at risk. Because without
2257 records they might have trouble with billing, without billing they can't
make money. They may also end up blocked by some new net filtering
regulations if they don't have all the paper work that fits into the US law.
It's world regulation by default thru commerce.
With this net neutrality thing it effects other countries too..... Lets say AOL
signs deals with a bunch of providers to pay them off to make google slow.
Then from Australia I look up google, but because my route lands at MCI
or whoever and AOL or whoever has a deal with them. I and everyone else
in Australia can no longer reach google.
-Ben
Last edited by MrYellow on Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
Machinesworking
- Posts: 11551
- Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
- Location: Seattle
sadly this FREEdom you speak of also means freedom for big businessmen and corporations to fuck everyone else over.studio615 wrote:It's really funny how people scream and moan and complain that freedom is taken away from them, when they lose a vote for the gov't to regulate more and more of this country. Stop being stupid. If you think for one second that greedy companies are going to take away your internet rights or block content, you are dead wrong. If a provider did this they would lose customers. And another guy around the corner will offer access cheaper that has no restrictions. They will get all of the customers. And Ceo's, being greedy as you think they are, will not let that happen. The republicans want the market to figure this out and I agree. We don't need even more gov't control, we need more freedom. Democrats stop trying to tell me how I can do buisiness, it's supposed to be a free country, not a socialist state, where we try to take from the rich and give to the poor. Get over it you idiots. It's really amazing that the democrats just do not get this simple fact, if you give people choices, and you let consumers choose, things are ALWAYS better than when gov't does it.
Jungle law - by it's very nature means the strong and powerful step on the small and weak, and in reality the small and weak are far greater in numbers - and are you and I.
You might think you're ok, but if another depression ala 1929 suddenly hit you would find out how much freedom you dont really have - and there's alot of stuff around to say that crash was deliberately created - and thus could be easily again when the time's right - the housing boom and huge pools of free flowing debt are the big warning signs because that's what it was like in the 20s
this is what scares me about our times now, all these little steps, this fabricated war on terror, all these various ways of abolishing these kinds of basic rights etc, along with a far greater technological ability to actually impose it are being put into place now as if in preperation for the day when the next depression, or WW3 or whatever catalyst provides the perfect environment to completely move in and take total control
sad thing is with the neo-con/bush people this all seems really really possible
Don't even get me fucking started on that Bullshit. I live in southern california. Fucking home of the rolling blackout. Argh.Machinesworking wrote:Right, like privatized energy, rolling blackouts couldn't be a more damming testimony to your lack of political depth.studio615 wrote:things are ALWAYS better than when gov't does it.
Every situation(1) should be confronted with its opposite(2) to come to a better situation(3).
1 Thesis
2 Antithesis
3 Synthesis
- Hegel
1 Thesis
2 Antithesis
3 Synthesis
- Hegel
see thats what's interesting, I mean ignoring the financial side of things - the poxy $5 subscription fees you might have to pay to visit a site regularly etc, the fees are just a smokescreen I reckon, its the databasing of users and their activities thats worrying for me. while everyone is like pissed off about paying a few bucks here and there for their net experience, I'm just uber cautious about the fact they can/could get concrete details about me sheerly from checking a few servers logs, and the yanks are inching their way towards this kind of situation, a little legislation here, a little legislation there, some distractionary smokescreens here...and *bang*, '15 years later we got them wearing cyber-collars and the impotent morons just let it happen ho! ho! ho! chortle! chortle! <tokes huge cigar>' said one syndicate member to the other, comtemplating future exploits.MrYellow wrote:That's their hope yes.
Also that if you want to visit site XYZ regularly then you have to signup to
XYZ's broadband provider, switch your long distance carrier, sell your first
born, and suck thier cock.
-Ben
not to mention america has already passed legislation a couple of years ago to make using things said in emails as hard evidence. Used to be it was enough to get a search warrant or something - but inadmissable evidence. Now if I email my ex-G in the states saying I just got some really nice weed, well...they can legally check my emails, and use them against me or her - perhaps reporting me to the authorities in my area.
There was a guy a couple of years ago who was growing the devils herb, american satellites picked up some heat signals ffrom his place (a cash cropper this guy was it seems) and reported him, he got busted and is rotting in jail now......heh, FUCK america. Really fuck that hideous flag and the lies its stitched with. every little rule they manipulate bit by bit is just another yard closer to the totalitarian hell its citzens are in for - and I'm guessing it wont be a walk in the park for anyone else either.
anyways, apologies for being longwinded and going off topic - I'm just trying to highlight that it wont be kool for America to know what yer into. Through economic blackmail you arent even safe in your own country. and who knows how the future will turn out -in england its against the law to reference any previous 'acts of terrorism' as anything but heinous crimes. They made an exception for the 1916 easter rising. The cheek of the cunts to even suggest that was terrorism in the first place, but ya...thanks for letting us talk about it freely Mr Tony Blair & co.
So with all these legislations coming into play, a piece at a time, posts like this saying 'fuck america' this and 'fuck america' that, can and will be construed as a crime of some sort even terrorism the way that word is being defined these days by rupert murdoch's networks - whats more, they will know exactly who you are too. well, if it keeps going the way its going.
I wouldnt mind paying for the internet a little more, if thats all it was...but sadly I think its alot more then generating some revenue....(but then I'm highly dubious about the economy anyways, so maybe I'm biased in some way)
all I know is, this cant be a good thing. I dont participate in any illegal online activities by the way....but I do think america is a crock of shit, I'm only concerned about if I should stop talking about it online or not. In the UK some woman was fined like over 20 grand sterling, for flaming some other guy on a forum. well she said he was gay or something liablous (sp?) but the fact remains, it went to court and she lost alot of money and got a criminal record - which was/is a precedent - so watch what you say online it seems. Even tho you might just be venting - ala free speech - it can easily be construed as something much more. For instance, some nutjob who frequents a forum you do goes and blasts some people, they check the forum and there you are saying you'd like to ice pick tony blair....heh...it sounds bizarre, but I guarantee you we will see alot of these things in our lifetime. and that will be enough for them to zone in on you and your business. How they found her ? they pressured the site, who gave the isp details and they pressured the isp - and now its a legal process.
Satellites eh..... Well the drive round with IR cameras here and thereThere was a guy a couple of years ago who was growing the devils herb,
american satellites picked up some heat signals ffrom his place (a cash
cropper this guy was it seems) and reported him, he got busted and is
rotting in jail now.....
now... and offer the meterman $50 bounty on any tips.... Was a big stink
about if it is a legal search, but with all things like this the courts give the
cops the power even if it isn't constitutional.
Anyway.... Back to the start of your point, u know that VISA hands the feds
all credit card transactions right? ... Was part of their lil kiddy porn thing,
it's how that actor in the UK got done for "researching" by signing up to
kiddy porn sites. However as there are no controls on what that data can
be used for there will be more issues come up over time.
-Ben
I'm not convinced... I see no real threat. The market will naturally gravitate towards interoperability. Proprietary formats only succeed when they start out with a strong market share (think XM vs SIRIUS satellite radio). If the market starts out with a natural state of full access / common format, it is very unwise as a business to start restricting things. If you're the first to do so, your competitors will gleefully announce that they offer full access to all websites.
Yawn. This is making a mountain out of a molehill.