Ableton Forum

If anyone is interested, here is a great article on compression, written by an acclaimed mastering engineer, explaining what to do and what not to do with compressors, especially when sending your tracks to get mixed/mastered.

http://www.digido.com/modules.php?name= ... icle&sid=7

The website also has other great articles on getting a good mix, and preparation for mastering. A good read, i highly reccommend it.

-zeis

I don't have much use for them with synths or melodic instruments very often. Maybe a little on an acoustic guitar, or to make the attack really punchy on a synth with short attack. Otherwise, I mainly use 'em to pump drums. They are invaluable to me to get that big meaty trip hop drum sound though.

What helped me to be able to visualize what it was doing was to picture that little graph you see on compressors all the time of the level, and compression knee. You know, the x,y with pre-compressed level, and post-compression level. For example, Logic's compressor, wavearts, izotope etc, they all show you the knee. This pretty much tells you everything you need to know. Live's compressors don't have this but once you visualize the settings that way, you always picture it anyways.

The breakpoint is the threshold (ie, the point where anything louder gets squashed quieter).
And the slope after the breakpoint is the ratio (how drastically the levels are being squashed/brought down). The flatter the line, the more squashing, until it's a straight line after the breakpoint, at which point it is a limiter (or even before that). Then when you pull up the overall volume, it drags up the quiet parts as shown on the graph.

That's it really. The only other thing is the attack and release. These work exactly the same attack and release on synths, except backwards. Instead of setting where the sound comes in and fades, it sets where the squashing comes in and fades. So a super fast attack actually gets rid of the attack, and a longer one allows more of the original attack to come through. Same for release, leaving it long keeps it quiet longer, and when you shorten the release, it tells it to return to full volume faster. Of course how these two work together is the key thing in compression.

That's how I look at it. Just remember the little picture.

grb

rbmonosylabik wrote:why don't you take live's compressor or any compressor and then s(M)exoscope ( http://bram.smartelectronix.com/plugins.php?id=4 ) and fiddle for a while with a compressor so you both see and hear what it does. Maybe the real time graphical display of what it is doing to the waveform will help you grasp the concept.

sadly, it's not UB......I've gone back to almost excusivly mac. I've got a pt session commin' up (it's on the pc only ) next week and I'll check that out. Again, as pointed out.....nice suggestion.....

divonic wrote:One reason that Compressors are so hard to get your head around is that they do different things in different situations. you can use a compressor on a single part, on the entire track, to compress or as a limiter.

I don't pretend to understand them to well but I basically follow the turorials and then start messing with things untill I either get something I like or deciede that maybe a compressor isn't gonna be useful in this situation.

that would be yes, yes and yes.

Tone Deft wrote:

knotkranky wrote:Well damn lm, i didn't know you got deep like that, kudos.

Don't even get him started on blocking bass ports.

Good thread! I laughed, I cried, I learned.

A term I'm not familiar with but it sounds worth listening to? hint?..........

Here's something that is harder to explain than "listen" to......

I have many plugs, pc and mac, hosts I use are live, logic, and PT. Depending on the built ins, or the extras, there are such HUGE differences in "how" they do things.....it's a mind blower!

I hate to say it....but the best ones I've used/own are the URS plugs. Exensive, dongle, yadda. But I only have a few. Those were the ones that got my attention so to speak.

First, I got the "channel strip". It's a decent starting point, audio midi had it at the time for like 100 bucks or something.....can't get it that cheap anymore! Anyways, I already had the dongle so I got it (after demoing it) and then had the bright idea to demo the "real" plugs.

To my ears, I could not believe what I was hearing. Maybe not at first, but the more I started comparing things, the harder it was to live without most of them! Little subtle changes had much bigger impacts, and the overall tonallity is impossible to describe with these words.

Anyways, what I think I'm trying to say is that not only are there technical diffs.....but there are quality diffs as well. 700 bucks of "good" eqs/comps/etc can keep you from fuckin' around trying to find that "sound".....if that makes any sense.

btw, there was some mention of "buss mix".....this is crutial. Before I learned a bit more about that it was like "here, this is the track you asked for......you eq/master it" whatever. Now, it's much easier to provide my ideas for overall sonic impression.....it's another tool......

eyeknow wrote:

Tone Deft wrote:

knotkranky wrote:Well damn lm, i didn't know you got deep like that, kudos.

Don't even get him started on blocking bass ports.

Good thread! I laughed, I cried, I learned.

A term I'm not familiar with but it sounds worth listening to? hint?..........

trust me, you don't want to know.


.lm.

eyeknow wrote:
Anyways, what I think I'm trying to say is that not only are there technical diffs.....but there are quality diffs as well. 700 bucks of "good" eqs/comps/etc can keep you from fuckin' around trying to find that "sound".....if that makes any sense.

hell yeah it makes sense. It makes a huge diff. Save up longer and get the good stuff. I'm with that 100%

Just because someone can't hear it doesn't mean it's not making it better. Our music isn't just for ourselves, so why trust your ears completely. I don't. My ears or I should say my ears brain plays tricks on me all the time. I hedge that difference with high quality hardware and software. It takes the mind fuck out of it. It will be easier to get there and sound better for it, even If i'm getting it wrong when i think i'm getting it right. If i ever trust my ears that completely, i'm through. ....ummm, I need some coffee

http://gvst.co.uk/GCompBig.gif

Here is a picture of a free compressor (PC only) which shows your material before and after compression. Nice to see whats actually happen.
Nice multibandcomp and some other effects are there too!

http://gvst.co.uk

i found reading this book really helped with compressors, and lots mof other stuff too

http://www.mixingwithyourmind.com/

p@nts wrote:I'd like to hear Peeeedrooo chime in on this subject. I think I'm hearing some tasty compressor abuse on a lot of Justice and SebastiAn tracks, but I'm not sure...

hehe, i was about to bumpt this very interesting thread whe i stumbled upon this post.
funny.
unfortunately, i don't have much to share since i don't know any of these guys secrets!
i know sebastian doesn't use too much compression, and he actually kind of "fakes" side compression by drawing envelopes (or the equivalent in other apps).

oddly enough, all the tutorials Ive read didn't help. and I took a recording course that went into details on compressors and I still bairly understood. but now in the second semester of that course the teacher went into it again and drew pictures and for some reason it finally totally clicked. I fully understand them now. not that I can compress a track to perfection or anything but I do fully understand how compression works now. YAY!

it's silly how it just takes that one moment when it's explained just the right way.

the word "understanding" is such a damn thing... to be honest i even never understood what is going on while breathing. lungs, o2, blood, supply... sure, but what the hell?

so i don´t care too much about compressors, just using them (but not too much, just waves c4 or some of the great urs). listening through presets, decide for one, fine tuning. that´s all, everything else may kiss my butt.

The Dance Music Manual has the most practical lesson in compressors I have read. Several pages on setting up a compressor for different purposes. The whole book is surprisingly good.....the best book on electronic music I have seen by far.

some minutes ago i used the "compressor II" in live. it seems very simple:

while you put the treshold down the difference in volume between all frequencies shrinks, all signals get pressed towards one common level in volume. therefore the sound loses room/space (which "experts" call "dynamics"), it gets tighter and thinner. but also louder, more "present".

maybe the best way to find out is listening to a signal consisting of seperatable sounds that highly differ in volume. listen to it, be calm and look for the more silent ones. than change the treshold (don´t be shy, do it rough and slow and middle, just try it for a while) and keep your ears open. mh?


and thinking it more over a good compressor has complicated algorhythm for changing the volumes of frequencies (maybe somehow grouping neighboured a little) or at least a lot of settings that work precise in what they do.