Josh Von wrote:More evidence that a whole cluster of these kinds of problems are directly related to number of clips on the grid in arrange (if using arrange) ..
.. and that the problem is Live starts handing the data more poorly the more clip (cuts) are on the grid:
Why does consolidating many clips into one improve performance on restart of the project?
Because you are telling live to summarize the data in all the individual clips into one. All that less data it needs to track ...so ...
Less stuttering, juddering, random lockups, dropouts, failure to load projects, failure to close etc.
There is a direct relationship and on my machine and others I have seen it reproduces every single time
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More evidence (memory allocation of clip and other data is most basic cause of these problems)
Right now I am running a production set ..
- ~50 tracks, not all playing simultaneously, ALL audio - no VSTs
- only live effects, Camelphat mix effect (low cpu, regged, totally safe and benign in every way), Izotope Ozone3 on master
- relative minimum of clip edits at this point: most of the tracks were bounced down using Render All Tracks and brought back in as single long 8 minute clips
However:
There are some edits on the grid, and in particular there is a straight edit all the way down all clips at 'major intersections' between arrangment sections ..
ie. where there are significant new parts coming in, I split the clips .. before VS 1, BRG, CHorus .. BRK .. etc..
It is right at these points where Live chokes. The audio plays smoothly and right as it hits the split point on the clips ... KKK-PPPP-THHHHHZZZZZTT
.. everything judders to a halt, the green meter skyrockets up to %15667 or some ridiculous number, swings back and forth and this goes on for a couple of really, really slow bars.
Its like a 10, 15 second wait. Then the audio goes smoothly again.
This sound? is so distinctive to Live, and we are so accustomed to hearing it over the course of three years, Im trying to figure out a way to sample it and get into my tracks.
(Im serious. People will recognize it and laugh. They get it producing, they get it performing Live, they get it doing almost anything).
Unfortunately the sound doesnt record at the master out. Which means.. what? That the problem is manifesting at the interface level .. not pre-master.
So:
This is what it appears is happening. Live is reading these clips, and interpreting the data and when it sees new clip intersections coming, it says:
"Oh here is some new data. Let me shuffle some of this stuff around in main memory or at the audio interface, wheres that buffer .. gotta dump some of this stuff and get ready to play the new shit!! Yah!!"
But a split second later, when it actually gets there, it finds out it wasnt as prepared as it thought it was so the whole process goes to crap. "Blahh what do I do now?? Waaa!"
'Its the audio driver then'
Natural conclusion but then why (all other things being equal)
a. is this happening acrost almost all major driver manufacturers and
b. are those same interface / drivers (all other things being equal) not having this same issue - and producing this distinctive "Live Judder" with other major DAWs
At a certain point you have to say - not primarily User Problem and not primarily Third Party Vendor problem.
It is the fault of the application - has been for about 3 years now - and I am sitting here stressing out doing backstands to finish my project, with a deadline Friday nite.
Its like deja vu all over again cause (again) I am on a brand new machine and its Live 6 already and thought the dual plus fixes would get rid of this but no.
FYI at times the only way work is work acrost multiple template. We need to bounce down a chunk of channels into a master stereo version (sans Pads, or sans Drums whatever) .... then bring that up into a fresh template .. warped .. to build new stems around it.
Only way man. Major hassle.
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