Ableton Forum

Kjaerhus MPL-1 PRO and Voxengo Elephant 2.5 are both significantly less than L2 or L3 and do a better job imho.

PSP Audio's mastercomp blows away the Waves compressors, although it is actually more expensive than a Waves compressor. McDSP are Protools only plugs btw.

Waves have some nice plugins, the C4 is interesting and Maxxbass and their reverbs and EQs are all good but I would take UAD-1 anyday over Waves. I'm not a fan of SSL sounding stuff anyway, so their emulations might be great for those who like that, I wouldn't know.

Sony Oxford and Sonalksis are all better sounding too to my ears. But it's all a matter of personal taste and if somebody bought me the mercury or platinum waves bundles, I wouldn't look that gift horse in the mouth, I'd say hell yeah !

In a (US) criminal court, you have to be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

When you get sued, on the other hand, the plaintiff just has to present a little more evidence than you that you are guilty (called something like a preponderance of evidence?)

Look guys ...
no one is forcing you to buy waves plugs.

Of course there is competition....
That's not the topic though...
All the plugs you mentioned are great tools as well....
I for one love TC's mastering plugs.
But seriously ... that's not the issue...

The issue is MORALS...
What is THEFT in your book...?

Waves is as serious a company as it gets... it makes PRO products.
They have a Business plan like any other company in the world and PRICING..
You can either choose to buy this software or not...

If you choose not to... then DONT...
But that does not make stealing any different...
especially if you're using the software to generate a profit....

laird wrote:In a (US) criminal court, you have to be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

When you get sued, on the other hand, the plaintiff just has to present a little more evidence than you that you are guilty (called something like a preponderance of evidence?)

is this cowboy hat Laird? dj from SF area?

3dot... wrote: The issue is MORALS...
What is THEFT in your book...?

thanks for coralling this onto topic...


I do not think using pirated software is stealing. I do think it is infringement of the rights of the company/creators. You should not make money using warez, that is a NO-NO. Do I think people doing so should be punished? Perhaps if the punishment fit the crime! Being fined %20 of the products retail value seems reasonable. But to bring it back even closer to the topic... What Waves is doing is despicable!! Horrible!! Waves loses the MORAL high ground by being such fascist arses!

What's 'fascist'?

They are operating within the law...

SO...
If a person has pirated waves plugs on his PC...but isn't making any $$ from it is COOL?
No

it's just less harsh ...
it's still isn't right....

But waves Ain't going for those people...
They are going as PAYING customers...

so that makes their moral grounds a bit higher...

I am a waves satisfied (mostly)customer...
so I want this company to succeed and continue developing ...
Same for Ableton...
So I DON'T STEAL FROM THEM....

%20 of the retail value of the software for a fine? You got to be kidding. At a minimum the cost of the software +. IMO it doesn't matter if you are using the software for profit or fun. And the argument "try before you buy" is weak since most of the software out there has a limited use demo available for evaluation.

My $0.02

My views on pirated software

Selling the software = The Worst

Use software for Profit = Bad

Use software for Non-profit = Not as bad

Use software For Fun = Doesn't matter, Figure out what tools you actually use, then buy them.

Use software for a better demo verison = Yes! I can't justify spending up to $1,000 on software without testing and using the full verison first.

And don't anyone say the demo verison is all you need, because if it was they wouldn't have a full verison!

djamp42 wrote:My views on pirated software

Selling the software = The Worst

Use software for Profit = Bad

Use software for Non-profit = Not as bad

Use software For Fun = Doesn't matter, Figure out what tools you actually use, then buy them.

Use software for a better demo verison = Yes! I can't justify spending up to $1,000 on software without testing and using the full verison first.

And don't anyone say the demo verison is all you need, because if it was they wouldn't have a full verison!

exactly

3dot... wrote:SO...
If a person has pirated waves plugs on his PC...but isn't making any $$ from it is COOL?
No

it's just less harsh ...
it's still isn't right....

But waves Ain't going for those people...
They are going as PAYING customers...

so that makes their moral grounds a bit higher...

I am a waves satisfied (mostly)customer...
so I want this company to succeed and continue developing ...
Same for Ableton...
So I DON'T STEAL FROM THEM....

I respect your opinion on this, and that you support the companies you use.

If the company that was on a rampage was one which I was a loyal customer (ableton, IK) then I would be even more disturbed and full of contradiction.

Waves makes awesome tools, but I think they crossed a line.

KU wrote: I do not think using pirated software is stealing. I do think it is infringement of the rights of the company/creators.

You are wrong, because the rights that are being infringed upon are the rights of the company to make their money back (plus profit) on all the time and effort they put into making the plugs in the first place.

If you are in possesion of something that you were supposed to have paid for and yet didn't, then you stole it. There is no other angle to it than that. You have every right to think that their products are way overpriced, but that doesn't give you the right to just take it illegally; rather, you have the right to not purchase them and therefore not be in possesion of them.

Whether you use them to make money or not is utterly irrelevent. Stealing software is not a "victimless crime", it is simply stealing. You are hurting the company whether you feel like it or not, just because you happen to disagree with their pricing.

Justify it to yourself however you want, the bottom line is you are stealing!



/not judging, just saying

It is always interesting to watch people stand back and talk big when it is someone else in the grinder.

Believe me, if you are targeted by a much larger interest as is the case here, you are in the deepest of all trouble and there will be no justice for you.

This form of privileged vigilantism is not unique to Waves or the RIAA but is exercised all too often in the corporate world and severely circumvents the rights of individuals BY INTENT. The purpose is to instill fear to attempt to increase profits.

There is no way to directly confront these scenarios and you should pray that it does not land on you. Mistakes can and will be made and essentially once your name gets on the list you will be persecuted with extreme prejudice because once on their list you are a lowly pirate that is just destroying the industry. In this case, I am betting someone with a personal vendetta turned him in and prompted the visit.

This should all sound really familiar as it is the same ideology (minus the violence) by extremist regimes of present and past. Turn your enemies into the SS and let them take care of them ... yikes!

How to really fight these companies?
- Do not use their software in any form, not even demos.
- Do not purchase their software
- Be clear in forums/blogs that the licensing and corporate behavior of the company is reprehensible and that you take a great risk in dealing with them and also perpetuate their behavior.
- OFFER ALTERNATIVEs!!!! Promote the software from well behaved companies that have a respect for their user community. Every time yiy see a posting from this company ensure that you make people aware of alternatives.

Same way you would fight any bully ... gang up on him

Good Day

Hillary Clinton wrote:It is always interesting to watch people stand back and talk big when it is someone else in the grinder.

Believe me, if you are targeted by a much larger interest as is the case here, you are in the deepest of all trouble and there will be no justice for you.

This form of privileged vigilantism is not unique to Waves or the RIAA but is exercised all too often in the corporate world and severely circumvents the rights of individuals BY INTENT. The purpose is to instill fear to attempt to increase profits.

There is no way to directly confront these scenarios and you should pray that it does not land on you. Mistakes can and will be made and essentially once your name gets on the list you will be persecuted with extreme prejudice because once on their list you are a lowly pirate that is just destroying the industry. In this case, I am betting someone with a personal vendetta turned him in and prompted the visit.

This should all sound really familiar as it is the same ideology (minus the violence) by extremist regimes of present and past. Turn your enemies into the SS and let them take care of them ... yikes!

How to really fight these companies?
- Do not use their software in any form, not even demos.
- Do not purchase their software
- Be clear in forums/blogs that the licensing and corporate behavior of the company is reprehensible and that you take a great risk in dealing with them and also perpetuate their behavior.
- OFFER ALTERNATIVEs!!!! Promote the software from well behaved companies that have a respect for their user community. Every time yiy see a posting from this company ensure that you make people aware of alternatives.

Same way you would fight any bully ... gang up on him

Good Day

well said, I guess that's why you'll take the next oval office.