ableton onboards effects, whats your opinion

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:19 am

krank wrote:How come people claim EQ8 sounds better than EQ4? The algo's the same AFAIK, EQ8 simply has added functionality.

how would you know if the algorithms are the same? if EQ8 has added functionality they can't be the same.

/just sayin'...

Lazos · Post by **Lazos** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:26 am

Live's effects rock for my purposes. I also really like Live's reverb. It sounds way better than any of the freebies that I've tried. I usually just make sure it's on high quality and heavy on the dry signal (all the presets on all the verbs that I've heard (even the high end convolution ones) sound way too saturated to my ears. That and cut some of the high end for sounds with really sharp and high-end transients.

The main effect that will probably make a mix sound "Abletonish" would be Beatrepeat, but I don't really use it much.

The only third-party synth I own is Zebra. The only Ableton instrument I own is Operator. I've realized I don't need anything else for what I want to do.

krank · Post by **krank** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:44 am

Tone Deft wrote:
krank wrote:How come people claim EQ8 sounds better than EQ4? The algo's the same AFAIK, EQ8 simply has added functionality.
how would you know if the algorithms are the same? if EQ8 has added functionality they can't be the same.

/just sayin'...

Because they sound the same. Added functionality: stereo processing, more bands.

forge · Post by **forge** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:49 am

krank wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:
krank wrote:How come people claim EQ8 sounds better than EQ4? The algo's the same AFAIK, EQ8 simply has added functionality.
how would you know if the algorithms are the same? if EQ8 has added functionality they can't be the same.

/just sayin'...
Because they sound the same. Added functionality: stereo processing, more bands.

no it has been improved - right click>high quality

but it's not enabled by default so AFAIk there should be no difference noticed without it enabled - except of course for the new Notch filter

maybe the 64 bit summing has something to do with it

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:51 am

forge wrote:
krank wrote:
Tone Deft wrote: how would you know if the algorithms are the same? if EQ8 has added functionality they can't be the same.

/just sayin'...
Because they sound the same. Added functionality: stereo processing, more bands.
no it has been improved - right click>high quality

but it's not enabled by default so AFAIk there should be no difference noticed without it enabled

maybe the 64 bit summing has something to do with it

by all accounts the 64 bit summing makes a difference at around -130dB.

krank - props for admitting that you don't hear a difference, that takes more honesty than saying the new shit sounds better because it's new and you just spent a few hundred on it.

forge · Post by **forge** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:16 am

Tone Deft wrote: maybe the 64 bit summing has something to do with it

by all accounts the 64 bit summing makes a difference at around -130dB.
[/quote]

really? you dont think Livve 7 sounds better?

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:25 am

no (i didn't think previous versions of live sounded deficient, but that just shows i'm a sucker without awesome ears).

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:45 am

forge wrote:
forge wrote:
Tone Deft wrote: maybe the 64 bit summing has something to do with it
by all accounts the 64 bit summing makes a difference at around -130dB.
really? you dont think Livve 7 sounds better?

no, I don't. I'm upgrading monitors soon, right now I just have Event PS5s (my second ever electronica music gear purchase almost a decade ago), I hope to get a pair of Gennies, then I can honestly start listening for improvements. I know when something sounds bad, Live never has, it's 2008 we got over that stuff a long time ago. if Live sounds bad it's much more likely to be me, not the software or sound card.

by all accounts there's very little difference. stuff like the new dithering options are probably more exciting than 64 bit summing.

dunno, I'm weird where I draw the line I guess.

jamester · Post by **jamester** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:22 am

1) I don't buy into all the constant bullshit about which DAW sounds better or worse. Having said that, I noticed Live 7 sounding better than Live 6 almost immediately. I don't have the world's greatest ears, but to me it was obvious. I doubt it's just wishful thinking/power of suggestion either, because I always defended Live 6 as sounding just fine.

2) I voted "Good". I think the compressor is quite decent now, and I like the EQ, Saturator and auto filter. The reverb isn't bad on high quality/no chorus, especially on a send. I'd like to see them improve the reverb and combine the delays, maybe combine Erosion and Redux...and does anybody actually use EQ3? If not, cut it.

dave dominey · Post by **dave dominey** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:13 am

i dont think anything should be cut be the ability to hide certain things would be nice

and maybe some folders for fx types (instruments also while im at it)

forge · Post by **forge** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:19 am

jamester wrote:1) I don't buy into all the constant bullshit about which DAW sounds better or worse. Having said that, I noticed Live 7 sounding better than Live 6 almost immediately. I don't have the world's greatest ears, but to me it was obvious. I doubt it's just wishful thinking/power of suggestion either, because I always defended Live 6 as sounding just fine.
.

well this is why I asked - I thought I noticed a difference

I dont know if it's placebo, but from what I understand the accumalative effect of mixing in Live and it's effects could ultimately sound better just due to the 64 bit

I never had a problem with it either - I came from Logic, Cubase and Nuendo - in fact probably still rewired to Cubase first for a while

I also tried Logic 8 not long ago and wasnt bowled over by any great amazing sound difference

90's child · Post by **90's child** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:10 am

the 64 bit summing bus does make a huge difference to Live. Now when you play back a ripped commecial track off a CD, the master bus doesn't go into the red/peak.

dj mush · Post by **dj mush** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:36 am

interesting replies! cool.

I do not have even one effectplugin. its all ableton for now...
I started this thread not because i was breaking the effects down of ableton...I was curious to opinions....

In my experience I especially have questions concerning the reverb.
For example with a nice warm handclap...
I'm trying to add a clear, warm long reverb to it, without it being raped by the overwelming reverb...but really just the clap that clearly stays present and resonates via a nice reverb.
And I'm not getting to it at all...
the results i get is that you hear the clap, and after that some metallic hall-echo is present... so the effect i'm having is that the reverb only starts after the clap is heard.
and I've tried loads of settings with this reverb, and I can never get to a perfect reverb, where no metallic sound is added, but only the pureness and warmth of the clap remains (and also the power of the sound should be still present).

therefor I was wondering the quality of the onboard reverb.
But if more experienced users of ableton can advise me on how to reach this with the onboard reverb, I would be more than happy not having to look for an external effect.

I remember doing this with an alesis midiverb, and the reverb was much brighter, warmer...
So am I missing some settings? some extra effect combined with the reverb to reach this?
I do not want to end up with a chain of effects on one clap, just to get a clear warm, long, powerfull reverb.

The clearness I'm talking about is for example the 'handclap-fingersnap' of BookaShade in the beginning of the track 'in white rooms'...
I've started with the exact same sample, but can't get the same reverb, or even not near...(www.myspace.com/getbookashade)

Robert Henke · Post by **Robert Henke** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:04 pm

try this:

- put reverb in a return channel. place EQ8 before it, so you can EQ the signal that goes into the reverb.

- set stereo to 120
- use large room sizes. ( Size 100...500)
- place the Spin and Chorus balls close to left lower corner
- use "Eco" mode. ( yes, it will often be a better choice, even if it creates a technically cheaper reverb simulation )
- set pre-delay to minimum
- set the diffusion network high filter to around 1.9 kHz and 0.83
- set reverb dry / wet to maximum

the parameters which are now most interesting to play with are:

- the EQ before the reverb
- the reverb time
- the stereo parameter
- the diffusion network high filter

and of course the amount of reverb you use on the clap.

also always interesting: re-record the reverb tail and use it as a second sample that you can flter, transpose, apply envelopes,.. and mix it with the original clap.

more suggestions:

use your bathroom. place speaker in it, and a microphone, play clap in Live, record reverb from bathroom. or any other room...

Cheers, Robert

dj mush · Post by **dj mush** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:43 pm

thank you robert for the interesting tips!
I'll check them out as soon as possible...

cheers!

ableton onboards effects, whats your opinion

what do you think of the onboard audio-effects