Ableton Forum

There are SO many lighting fixtures out there, and they're getting cheaper and brighter all the time. The real talent lies in what you can do with them, but it is limiting. I find lighting boring, especially when compared to video, which offers MUCH more creative scope. The crowd will remember and be moved by compelling video, but I doubt if they feel the same with lighting.

IMO, lighting is taking a back seat to video. While lighting definitely adds to the atmosphere, the power of video when integrated with the audio is far more powerful. All three working together is even better, and Live makes it possible.

hambone1 wrote:There are SO many lighting fixtures out there, and they're getting cheaper and brighter all the time. The real talent lies in what you can do with them, but it is limiting. I find lighting boring, especially when compared to video, which offers MUCH more creative scope. The crowd will remember and be moved by compelling video, but I doubt if they feel the same with lighting.

IMO, lighting is taking a back seat to video. While lighting definitely adds to the atmosphere, the power of video when integrated with the audio is far more powerful. All three working together is even better, and Live makes it possible.

Im sure in your world, lighting is in the back seat and all, but light is light, wether it comes from a video projector or a lighting fixture, now, try and light a person with your video screen, and thing now start getting expensive... as far as LIVE bringing it all together, Light, Sound, and Video (and animitronics, and pyro, and rigging) have been linked up for years, check out this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDI_Show_Control

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6uK9DpHDm0

Enough said. I think I would remember (and do) that more than a skillfully put together video presentation....but maybe I just watch too many movies.

Daft Punk is probably the best show out there that has direct artist control over lighting, they use a Grand MA console with direct MIDI input from ableton.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj9AYdsb5Kg&feature=user


In my opinion, this is the best thing to come from England...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyqgjCKm9nQ

BongoBennie wrote:...as far as LIVE bringing it all together, Light, Sound, and Video...

I should have said Live makes it affordable. It's my poor-man's show control!

I still contend it's just not the equipment, but what you do with it (same as music, then!) Technology is a skill anyone can learn, and it's getting cheap enough for anyone to afford. It's the creativity and talent that goes into using it that's the hard part (for me, at least!), and Live offers a very powerful and creative way to integrate audio, video, and lighting (and pyro, or anything else DMX- MIDI-, or RS-232-controlled) in a different way.

beats me wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6uK9DpHDm0

Enough said. I think I would remember (and do) that more than a skillfully put together video presentation....but maybe I just watch too many movies.

Hmmm... I'd venture to say that WAS video!

Video ain't just corporate presentations and movies, y'know. And as large-format bright LED panels gain in popularity, projectors get brighter and cheaper, and software easier to use, the line between video and lighting will be even more blurred.

My amateur opinion, for what little it's worth. (In over my head here against the likes of Bongo Bennie... think I'll bow out gracefully and leave it to the experts!)

hambone1 wrote:

beats me wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6uK9DpHDm0

Enough said. I think I would remember (and do) that more than a skillfully put together video presentation....but maybe I just watch too many movies.

Hmmm... I'd venture to say that WAS video.

Video ain't just corporate presentations and movies, y'know. And as large-format bright LED panels gain in popularity, projectors get brighter and cheaper, and software easier to use, the line between video and lighting will be even more blurred.

My amateur opinion, for what little it's worth. (In over my head here against the likes of Bongo Bennie... think I'll bow out gracefully and leave it to the experts!)

I'm not sure if that was video but I think the average person would probably consider it lighting. I think most people equate video with actual images and not geometric shapes and lines. But my whole point was really that interesting things can still be done with lighting (which I'm considering that to be) given a large enough budget and I think things will become more interesting as high powered lasers become more affordable. If actual images are drawn with lasers would you consider that lighting or video?

This is a very interesting conversation, for sure, I think everyone in this thread is on the right track (even you Hambone!) I have been doing this so long that even I need to see the light with fresh eyes, remember, lights, video and lazers are all the same thing, visual effects... We lighting guys tend to follow all the rules when it comes to light because its so damn expensive, guys like you see the light differently, which is how the boundaries get pushed. In the end of it all wether it be with lights or sound, were all just trying to put on a good show... and remember, in the end, light and sound are very much the same thing, traveling energy, just at different frequencies, (red is a low freq, blue is a high one)

Also, if you get serious about a light rig, you can design monster rigs with a good visualizer, and rent your rig whenever and were ever you need it and save a bundle!!

good visualizer http://www.espvision.com/

These guys are doing some pretty cool video stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJzdKy3yd8E

Using Live CC clips and values as LFOs for video in Flash movies to control Flash parameters, dummy clips, virtual MIDI buses, Follow Actions, the Arpeggiator, and MIDI effects is a fantastic way to do interactive real-time lighting and projections. The same CCs that control the Flash elements can control the lighting (and audio) at the same time.

I personally couldn't give a damn about how it's 'always been done'... I enjoy the challenge of doing things my way! I don't know a GrandMa from a GrandPa or a Universe from a Galaxy... but to me it doesn't matter. Lighting is support for music and video, much like a bartender or sound engineer!

hambone1 wrote:These guys are doing some pretty cool video stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJzdKy3yd8E

brilliant!

one of the vvvv guys just linked this one:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=34Mu2qkVCSw

goddammit that's a cool light!

BongoBennie (and others) - do you have any insights into controlling cold cathode tubes via DMX? That thing is sick!

I am researching controlling a Jands Vista S3 or an ETC Smartfade ML with cues from Ableton Live. I currently use Live to trigger video clips on another PC which works really well. Is it as easy as sending a midi note to the console to trigger a cue on the board? Can anyone offer me a quick and dirty description of how it works, where I could go for more info? Any insight you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

I've worked for years as a lighting tech and designer for a number of large scale venues and gigs in London... Before getting utterly bored, and concentrating on sound and production. I've programmed several industry standard lighting desks and created designs for many well known artists. PM me if there's anything in particular you want to know.

It has not been mentioned yet, but an increasingly popular system is ChamSys. Their MagiQ software is free and runs on any laptop running Win, OSX or Linux and works with any USB to DMX box and it's VERY powerful and stable.

Sonny Woodworth wrote:I am researching controlling a Jands Vista S3 or an ETC Smartfade ML with cues from Ableton Live. I currently use Live to trigger video clips on another PC which works really well. Is it as easy as sending a midi note to the console to trigger a cue on the board? Can anyone offer me a quick and dirty description of how it works, where I could go for more info? Any insight you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

the vista s3 has a midi input. Get out its manual and see what the midi input can do on it. Should be easy enough.