What can I get from HW Synths that I can't get from my Softs

Ruud · Post by **Ruud** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:36 am

I use Live & the Nord Wave
A perfect combination.

Freekster · Post by **Freekster** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:47 am

I can get a fat bass sound with softsynth if I tweak it right. If I just turn on my Moog Source, I just play notes and it oozes phatness

I use analogue synths for bleebs, blobs, fx and phat bass sounds. Rest is done with softsynths. I'd love to get more HW synths like Virus TI and Nord Wave or anything from Waldorf.

ze2be · Post by **ze2be** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:02 pm

deva wrote:
pepezabala wrote: A hardware synth can be plugged in straight into an amp without the need of addtional soundcards, mixers, host software, DI-boxes etc.

If you use just one hardware synth, then it likely does not make sense to get a laptop and softsynths... If you use 5 softsynths and compared that to setting up 5 hardware synths so they talk to each other, stands, pedals, cables etc then the laptop and audio interface and controller keyboard are easier and faster to transport and setup.

And you can have any kind of wild effect chains in the vst host! All saved in your host and reusable in Live for other projects... I use less and less hardware synths. Even though my Virus Ti has the VST part, I rearly use it, because you still get a lot of problems typically hardware synth related: you cant render or freeze, you have to record every track used, one by one.. You can only use one instance of the vst interface for all the 16 available channels, and need to send midi to the other channels. So solo track want work.. You can only have midi automation on CH1... Its a mess!

So I sample it a lot instead.. Its ofcource super nice still, great for getting focus away from the computer. Usually I just record some long wav clips in session without effects.

My dream synth would be Virus Ti type vst soft synth, with a dedicated usb controller from Access! Though I guess they are afraid of piracy on the software. Would however cost them a lot less to produce..

Im travelig a lot, having studio in europe and india plus gigs around the world. So im concidering trading my polar for a snow actually. Or just get the snow also.. but its pricey.. The Virus Ti is a very good sound source. Though Virus classic and B has much a better interface layout. Ive made lots more presets with a virus B then with my Ti because of that. And I still use them in my Ti!

But a polar with a dedicated controller might be a sweet combo.

spkey · Post by **spkey** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:24 pm

I agree with deva's view that hardware is romanticised. From a programmer's perspective (having been one myself) soft synth design has been improved vastly. Nowadays, expensive synths have low-level code that simulate analogue electronics' behaviour. This is very different from the approach 10 years ago. Compare an expensive commercial vst with a hardware one and you instantly see the benefit of software.

Obviously you cannot simulate the "feel" of playing with an analogue. Just patch it on a Marshall...

Noel · Post by **Noel** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:26 pm

An overdraft?

If you have a large budget and space to keep everything set up and ready to go then hardware synths win hands down, for all the reasons already stated. I would truly love to be able to work in that kind of environment.

Alas I'm poor, but thanks to soft synths, I have access to synthesis power way beyond my wildest dreams of a decade ago - and most of it hasn't cost me a penny.

Let the people with a budget argue the benefits of a dedicated control surface and the finer points of sound quality.

The music software revolution has brought most benefit to people like me, with limited funds - who wouldn't otherwise have access to this kind of technology at all.

... I'm rambling, aren't I ?

Nick the Zombie · Post by **Nick the Zombie** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:20 pm

deva wrote:
Nick the Zombie wrote:I suppose it's easy to dismiss the fact that playing a hardware instrument is on a different plane of inspiration from playing a piece of software. The tactile feedback and interaction between a person and their instrument is a rarity in the electronic music world, and I think you should explore your impulse to play with hardware. It's worlds more fun and interesting than hooking up a MIDI controller to a computer, IMO. I want the thing that I am touching to actually be making the noise I am hearing. I want it to have its own character expressed through physical circuitry that was assembled by a person. Playing with something that is no more physical than a piece of code can only get me so far in terms of inspiration.
- Nick
Rather arbitrary... unless you are specifically talking about analog hardware, then your so called hardware synth is just a computer with some code in it.

When I play my Z1 or when I use the Z1 to control a softsynth, it feels just the same to me. Same keys, same knobs and controllers, same expression pedal and sustain pedal. I can create a separate bank for the Z1 with preset names that correspond to the names of a set of a softsynths presets and I can use the increment/decrement keys to scroll through them. If you sat down to play, you would not even know it was a softsynth and not the Z1 (unless you recognized the character of the Z1)

SOME hardware synths have dedicated knobs for most controls. Plenty do not. Plenty have small little screens that require you to navigate lots of menus to edit sounds and are annoying.

I think hardware is overly romanticized...

Yes, I am specifically talking about analog synths, or synths that mix different technologies in interesting ways, like the parameter locks in my Machinedrum. It's not really that arbitrary in those cases. I do agree that when you start talking about ROMplers and the like you might as well just use software. I've heard the "it's just a computer in a fancy box" argument in its various incarnations for 10 years now, but that doesn't change the fact that playing hardware synths is just far more enjoyable 99% of the time. It may be subjective, but it's not arbitrary.

- Nick

aisling · Post by **aisling** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:49 pm

great, diverse points of view. Thanks for the thread.

SuperBassMexican · Post by **SuperBassMexican** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:56 pm

You will get lotsa pussy with the hardware.

lunabass · Post by **lunabass** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:25 am

SuperBassMexican wrote:You will get lotsa pussy with the hardware.

and even more 30 something men with beards primed for a good stroking

ze2be · Post by **ze2be** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:18 am

lunabass wrote:
SuperBassMexican wrote:You will get lotsa pussy with the hardware.
and even more 30 something men with beards primed for a good stroking

aizo · Post by **aizo** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:54 am

I have a love hate relationship with my hardware. I dig out my JP sometimes for some wicked industrial basses. but it's nothing that vanguard couldn't do. I would use my synth more if I didn't have to hook up 4 cables...5, I forgot power...shit 6 I forgot the USB cable that goes from my midi interface to my laptop. multiply that by 2 more grooveboxes and how many cords do I have? I love my little EMX and 909. But writing drums in reason, DP, or Live destroys both with depth. I do like tweaking knobs and all.

Main reason I bought Hw was for live use. not composing. I have been writing music with a mouse for years. The only time I write using a HW snth is for maybe a string pad?

I view HW as a luxury.

Mazzo · Post by **Mazzo** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:51 am

UKRuss wrote:Right.

Drawback 1, only 128 steps/parameter.

I think thats why I like Automat and operator so much, to me the layout is obvious and follows an obvious signal flow. Some of the other soft synths i cannae get on with.

But is it enough to part with serious cashola for a new toy....

pressing 'ctrl' or 'shift' as you use your mouse will give you finer adjustment for soft synths.

UKRuss · Post by **UKRuss** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:05 am

hold on...

Now I'm being swung back t'other way and thinking I shouldnt bother with the HW as I'm probably expecting too much and its going to give me a load of arse ache with set up etc.

I'm kind of back to square one...

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:10 am

spkey wrote:I agree with deva's view that hardware is romanticised. From a programmer's perspective (having been one myself) soft synth design has been improved vastly. Nowadays, expensive synths have low-level code that simulate analogue electronics' behaviour. This is very different from the approach 10 years ago. Compare an expensive commercial vst with a hardware one and you instantly see the benefit of software.

Obviously you cannot simulate the "feel" of playing with an analogue. Just patch it on a Marshall...

I've compared the two, and analog still wins. I still use Reactor, Zebra and Absynth though, all unique enough to have a different sound than an old analog.
The "feel" you're talking about, a (good) Marshall is made of tubes, total cheating.

adventurepants_ · Post by **adventurepants_** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:02 am

i look at the hardware v software thing only as it relates to instruments. If you grew up playing real instruments then you may get more out of a hardware synth. The fixed control structure of the same knobs controlling the same things every time, and the way a musician relates to a real instrument cant be understated.

im only talking about really knobby synths here, i dont like menu diving on hardware either!

to me a control surface and a soft synth just doesnt feel like an instrument that I could fall in love with. Its like a guitar that everytime i pick it up the knobs and switches do something different than the last time i picked it up, and im pretty sure i dont want a guitar to do that.

that said, i do know musicians who thrive on synths and control surfaces, so i think its more about your personality than any right/wrong answer. Go and play with some knobby synths in a shop. If it gets your juices flowing, youll know if you have to have it or not.