ot ... wheels came off McCain/Palin today....... :) Awesome

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deva
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Post by deva » Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:32 pm

forge wrote:
Machinesworking wrote: Doesn't matter anyway, Obama is Pro: death penalty, increasing the Afghanistan miltiary, Georgia, Israel, wishy washy on abortion.
Anti: Pakistan, Venezuela, gay marriage, Russia, Palestine etc.
Basically the only difference is he says he'll pull troops out of Iraq in two years, good luck with that.....
sometimes I wonder about this though - I mean considering the amount of conservative voters there must be in order for Bush to be voted in twice then it probably doesn't hurt to make those claims - the question is how firm he'd be on them

who knows, just tryingt to be positive I guess
The problem isn't that Obama is a moderate right winger, it is that he is a political opportunist who happens to talk well.

He has accepted without question that this so called bailout is needed at all! Sure he talks a lot better than Palin, but he is essentially as far away from the truth.

In the past week, banks have borrowed an average of $188 Billion a day from the Fed. That is over $900 Billion in a week! More than the so called bailout!

Meanwhile, it is from the republican side that the 'bailout' bill is being stopped. The democrats are all in favor of this stinking pile of bullshit and just want to put a few cosmetics on it to say they defended the people (more rubbish). It is the house republicans who are exhibiting some sense, not democrats.

From an article: "House Minority Leader John Boehner released a letter to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, demanding that "serious consideration" be given to a radically different proposal that provides no government money up front for a financial rescue.

"If such consideration is not given, a large majority of Republicans cannot — and will not — support" the administration's plan, Boehner wrote."

deva
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Post by deva » Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:43 pm

btw... McCain helped derail the bill yesterday and sided with house republicans. Could end up being a strong political move which will allow McCain to say he sided with the average person while Obama sided with Wall Street.

deva
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Post by deva » Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:51 pm

The biggest bank failure in US history (washington mutual) was precipitated by a run on the bank. Depositors withdrew $16.7 Billion in the past 10 days...

trash
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Post by trash » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:06 pm

and this obviously has nothing to do with the iraq 'war' ....
its predator lenders... thats it...

i keep seeing this over and over again
people arguing the toss over the puppet on the left or the puppet on the right...
go back to bed america...
THEY ARE ALL EXACTLY THE SAME CORPORATE PUPPETS.
anarchy is the only way to truly evolve...

trash
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Post by trash » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:09 pm

sayin that though
i do want obama to win cos hes black
and more intelligent than the other two hilarious genetically modified bush clones...
its the same shit though either way...

elxicano
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Post by elxicano » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:04 pm

trash wrote:sayin that though
i do want obama to win cos hes black
and more intelligent than the other two hilarious genetically modified bush clones...
its the same shit though either way...
TROLL

elxicano
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Post by elxicano » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:06 pm

trash wrote:sayin that though
i do want obama to win cos hes black
and more intelligent than the other two hilarious genetically modified bush clones...
its the same shit though either way...
Actually glad to see you have a larger vocabulary than "wanker" (joke buddy)

It is a lot like the same shit because we have such a slow political process that only expedites wars...

rbro
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Post by rbro » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:29 pm

deva wrote:btw... McCain helped derail the bill yesterday and sided with house republicans. Could end up being a strong political move which will allow McCain to say he sided with the average person while Obama sided with Wall Street.
This is Bush's fucking bill. The dems should not let it go to a vote unless/until McCain's on board. The house repuplicans proposal asks for more deregulation and could end up costing taxpayers even more than the $700 Billion. Besides, Paulson says it won't work. I think it was just a headfake by the Republicans so they can come out today and say now we're making progress thanks to McCain's awesome leadership.

deva
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Post by deva » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:42 pm

A good analysis (IMO)

Quoted: Here’s why the government giveaway logic is fallacious: It’s a giveaway, not a bailout. A bailout is designed to keep the boat afloat. But the existing Wall Street boat crafted by the investment bankers seeking to unload their junk must sink. The question as it sinks is simply who will be able to grab the lifeboats, and who drowns.


There is a reason why the banks won’t lend: Housing and commercial real estate already are so heavily mortgaged that there is no rental value available (over and above operating expenses, current taxes and debt service) to pledge to the banks. It still costs more to buy a house than to rent it. No increase in the amount of credit, short of hyper-inflation can cure this. No lowering of interest rate, will lead banks to risk making a bad new loan – that is, a loan that probably will go bad and end up with the bank taking a loss after the borrower walks away or defaults.


Does Congress know what it is being told to do? Suppose that “taxpayers” are to squeeze money out of the “toxic” junk mortgages they buy from the investors that have bought these bad loans. The only way to do so would be for real estate prices to be raised to even higher levels. This means an even higher proportion of take-home pay by prospective homeowners.


Mr. Paulson realizes this. That’s why he’s directed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to inflate real estate prices all the more. At least, by the existing mortgage-holders to get paid off by existing debtors selling to the proverbial “greater fool.” The hope in Mr. Paulson’s plan is that there are enough “greater fools” with enough money to borrow from yet more foolish new mortgage lenders. Only Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Federal Housing Agency are willing to make such foolish loans, and that is only because they are being directed to act in a foolish way by Mr. Paulson.


Here’s the problem with following Mr. Paulson’s orders and lending yet more: Every major real estate advisor on record has forecast a further drop of between 20 to 30 percent in property prices over the coming twelve months. This is now the standard forecast. It means that over and above the five million arrears and foreclosures that Mr. Paulson acknowledged already are on the books, yet more families are to give up the fight by this time next year. Is the $700 billion giveaway fund to try and recoup by evicting them too from their houses – to pay the “taxpayer” enough to bail out Countrywide, Washington Mutual and other predatory lenders for loans that state Attorneys General have accused of being fraudulent?


For the government to even begin to recover some of the value of the $700 billion in junk mortgages it has bought would force new homebuyers to pay even more of their income to the banks. And if they do that, they will have less income to spend on goods and services. The domestic market will shrink, and tax revenues will fall at the state, local and federal levels. The debt overhead will deflate the economy, causing shrinkage all down the line.


So here’s where the cognitive dissonance comes in: It is necessary, even inevitable, for the volume of debt to come down – not up – to restore equilibrium. The economy was well on its way to preparing the ground for this last week. As Alan Meltzer of the American Enterprise Institute (of all places!) explained on McNeill-Lehrer, Merrill Lynch was able to be sold at 22 cents on the dollar; and the economy survived Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns being wiped out.


Such debt writes-offs are a precondition for writing down America’s mortgage debts to levels that are affordable. But Mr. Paulson’s plan is to fight against this tide. He wants the Wall Street to keep on raking in money at the expense of the economy at large. These are the big banks who lobbied Congress to appoint de-regulators, the banks whose officers paid themselves enormous bonuses and gave themselves enormous golden parachutes. They were the leaders in the great disinformation campaign about the magic of compound interest. And now they are to get their payoff.


The pretense is that not to pay them off would threaten “the economy.” The reality is that it only would stop their predatory behavior. Worse than that, for the economy at large a government take-over of these bad loans would prevent the debt write-down that the economy needs!


It gets worse. If Congress should be so destructive as to buy out $700 billion of bad loans (for starters), the sellers will do just what Russia’s kleptocrats did. They will take their money and move it abroad to a “hard” currency country. This will help collapse the dollar. Up will go gasoline costs and prices for other imports. America will be turned into a Russian-style post-Soviet economy, having endowed a new domestic kleptocracy of insiders, who use some of their gains to finance the campaigns of American Yeltsins such as McCain.


So let us admit that the economy has been taking a wrong track for a number of decades now. As John Kay noted : “When the dust settles, many banks and hedge funds will have lost more money on their trading activities in the past year or so than they had made in their entire history … The pursuit of shareholder value damaged both shareholder value and the business.”[2]


I worry that Wednesday’s jump in the Dow Jones average signals that the big betters have decided that there is a good chance of the vast giveaway going through. The Republican protests seem to me to aim not so much at really stopping the measure, but on going on record that they opposed it – before they voted for it. When the public wakes up to the great giveaway, the Republicans can say, “It was a Democratic Congress that did it, not us. Read our anguished protests.” Everyone is trying to cover themselves. With good reason.


Don’t let them speak on behalf of voters and then act against the economy, claiming that they are trying to save it. A giveaway of unprecedented magnitude would cripple it for as far as the eye can see.

deva
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Post by deva » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:52 pm

rbro wrote:
deva wrote:btw... McCain helped derail the bill yesterday and sided with house republicans. Could end up being a strong political move which will allow McCain to say he sided with the average person while Obama sided with Wall Street.
This is Bush's fucking bill. The dems should not let it go to a vote unless/until McCain's on board. The house repuplicans proposal asks for more deregulation and could end up costing taxpayers even more than the $700 Billion. Besides, Paulson says it won't work. I think it was just a headfake by the Republicans so they can come out today and say now we're making progress thanks to McCain's awesome leadership.
I'm not in support of the house republicans bill, but I'm glad that they are hindering the passage of the Bush bill (which the Democrats support).

There is no need for a bailout at all.

trash
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Post by trash » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:53 pm

elxicano wrote:
trash wrote:sayin that though
i do want obama to win cos hes black
and more intelligent than the other two hilarious genetically modified bush clones...
its the same shit though either way...
Actually glad to see you have a larger vocabulary than "wanker" (joke buddy)

It is a lot like the same shit because we have such a slow political process that only expedites wars...
yeah i can say cunt as well!

its the same shit because of the investment of large corporations in your country and the lobbyists that are hired by these large corporations. (i mean do any normal people have the time to lobby for or against laws , this is a full time job for these people) this is also true in my country of course. if anyone came in who actually wanted to change the status quo then effectively the corporations or investors can hold the country to ransom. if favourable conditions arent there the investment will just move away to less regulated places thereby rendering the country fucked. this is how they have the stupid cunts up against a barrel. the media perpetuates the lies by broadcasting bullshit distractions and limiting discourse. popular intellectuals set the scene for debate by framing questions which have brainwashing built in. ideological warfare i think they call it. e.g. the vietnam war is referred to as 'the defence of south vietnam' when actually it was just a random massacre which destroyed most of south vietnam even though it was the north they were supposedly fighting against. anyone who works for these people has already internalised this brainwashing they need to get through the day. money, greed and on and on.

in my opinion capitalism has already failed us.
just waiting for people to catch up.

its like bill hicks said...
when you become president you are taken into a room and shown the kennedy assassination from an angle youve never seen before.... implication being that could be you next if you step out of line...etc etc..
Last edited by trash on Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

trash
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Post by trash » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:58 pm

deva wrote:A good analysis (IMO)

cognitive dissonance
niaaaasssss. </south park>

why dont you guys just take up arms against these cunts.
you got it written on that bit of paper right....
the er constipation.. or summat...

they would probably kill you all and say it was an al qaeda attack.
internal insurgents....

knotkranky
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Post by knotkranky » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:55 pm

Pitch Black wrote:Image
Lovely :lol:
The miss teen ass lay-over is genious too.

Funny, Palin was asked that same foreign policy experience question almost two weeks ago!

Shouldn't she have a decent reply by now? WTF. Her debate with Biden will be a bloodbath.

djadonis206
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Post by djadonis206 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:19 pm

trash wrote:
deva wrote:A good analysis (IMO)

cognitive dissonance
niaaaasssss. </south park>
curious?
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mbenigni
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Post by mbenigni » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:51 pm

Thanks, deva. That post is chilling, but I'm glad you shared it.

Now, can anyone tell me anything about the alledged alternative plan that's botched things up in Washington? All I've gathered is it's down to a $700B bailout vs. "something else" and WTF why are we not hearing details???

Very frustrating. Really hits home just how powerless the individual US citizen is. Here's your 1 vote, every 4 years, by way of a completely byzantine electoral college. Now sit back and enjoy the ride.

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