Ableton Forum

that was so damn honest and refreshing that I just had a knee jerk reaction and didn't know how to express myself except in an extremely negative way.

Thanks for that.

Robert Henke wrote: ...
However, it might turn out that the changes would be so drastic that it would be
impossible to open older documents in that new version and things like that.
Things we simply cannot do anymore, too many users rely on us.*

We could find a it-somehow-works solution for the LFO idea. But it would be a
dirty hack, and would make it even harder to finally come up with a better solution
for all the above mentioned wishes.
...

I think you should resist the urge to hack and keep the final
solution clean architecturally. I like the ability to mix and
match musical objects with no limitations.

If the 'rewrite' breaks the older devices, perhaps some sort
of 'update' tool can go through and salvage the older
presets with some software mashing?

Another option that comes to mind is an 'insert' point
where the modulation parameter is exposed and may
be further mangled and then re-injected into the modulation path.
Somewhat like the audio sends we have
now, but for the MIDI tracks.

gotta love armchair programmers that have never written code.

omfg.

(no offense, just venting, these suggestions are insane.)

Tone Deft wrote:gotta love armchair programmers that have never written code.

omfg. :roll:

(no offense, just venting, these suggestions are insane.)

I don't now if you are referring to my suggestion or
something else, but I've written software since 1968 -
quite a lot and so many architectures and languages
I can hardly recall their names.

That does tend to drive one towards insanity.

cool, given your Sunnyvale address, I thought that might be that case.

maybe you can relate a bit? when a developer says 'major overhaul' it's a big red light to rethink the feature request.

I wasn't even born in '68!! ('72) but have been writing since the 6th grade.

My guess is that if the overhaul is postponed indefinitely, then at some point another company will write a piece of software that does what Live already does, but incorporates the overhaul from the start.

Tone Deft wrote:... when a developer says 'major overhaul' it's a big red light to rethink the feature request.
...

Or someone is so close to the problem that they need a radical jolt.

arachnaut wrote:Or someone is so close to the problem that they need a radical jolt.

true. sometimes just talking to someone about a problem you hear your own voice and... duuhh, got it.

Robert - can you post the code in question?

Live is like a big modular instrument to me, it has to have these features imo. I understand the difficulty here but i would be sad if live hit a brick wall & just added features to make it like every other sequencer.

Im certainly no programmer but there must be some way to convert an old project into the new? i guess not

is there not some workaround using a midi translater or midiyoke... something like that anyway?

Of course there are many ways to solve the problem, the problem lies in the many details that have to be thoroughly thought out.

I think there should be a way of building upon the current structure, in a way that lives previous sets could still be opened. Just leave it as it is as a default, but add buttons like forge suggested, buttons that make a relative automation an absolute one.

What the LFO should be capable of: the best would be to have one device that is able to create a basic waveform and then add as many modulations as you like. It could be a small device. Each does only one waveform, and when you add a 2. device, you may choose if the waveform adds up or if it is modulating the other waveform. They should be able to hide, and they should be able to load waveforms (which implies the need to be able to save waveforms).

On how to visualize: The lfo itself could have a screen where you may visualize 1. the waveform it is generating, 2. the output wave of the total of lfos you are appiying for one value at that point in the chain.

There could also be one final "flatten lfos" command, that renders all modulations to the arrangement view, or maybe the clip view too, but the problem is here it could be an infinite waveform and you gotta cut it down to something.

Any drawbacks to this?

the next cool thing would be something like ableton , but :

-Open source
-fully modular

this way we could make the software just like we wnt , something like ableton+reaktor.


And if you want to say how will the developers will eat check out blender a 3D software suite, at the level of maya,3dmax ( better for me actually) that is open source and its really really good.

Hey Robert:

I love how clip envelopes work. I think that a lot of people would be happy if they could just enable (maybe through a pref or config file) recording to clip envelopes for everything.

It's really silly that I can get Zebra CM for free with a magazine (or any 3rd party plug) and record clip for its parameters envelopes all day, but Live devices like Analog are ignored.

I realize you guys have reasons for wanting those handled differently, but many people don't want to work that way and it just seems like an artificial limitation that could easily be bypassed if we were only given a way.

This - along with increasing the maximum group macros, improving midi learn, and customizable automap parameters would go a LONG way toward making many people more happy with Live's midi control & automation capabilities, without requiring a major rewrite!

Lo-Fi Massahkah wrote:Ah. We love it when you get technical.

Or is it just me?

Seriously, I love that you come on here and actually explain things. In an honest and straight forward way.

Cheers,
.m

+1 Cheers.
I love when software companies are so direct.... well I know only one company like that...