Mastering (again...)

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
forge
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Post by forge » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:11 am

nebulae wrote:
knotkranky wrote:^ Agrees with SJ

One trick that always works for me is to mix into the main buss mastering plugins from the start. C4 > L2. I set those up first. That way after a hard fought mix you don't throw that stuff on and suddenly have a different mix. Basically, my mastering plugins are always on and that way you're only mixing, mastering is already done so to speak. ITB mixers who do these in separate steps don't realize they're still mixing/mastering in the old console mix style. That one's on the house. :wink:
I've tried this method, but I find that if I do this too soon (meaning before I've recorded all my parts) then I'm making adjustments without any bearing. For example, if I have a limiter on the master chain, and then I realize I need to add more guitar or vocal parts, then to issues occur:

1. My recording mix isn't accuracte because I'm hearing it through the limiter, and
2. Most likely, the limiter adds some plugin latency, which is messing with my timing.

I agree that this isn't a bad way to mix, but I wouldn't add mastering plugs in the Master channel until you're about 80-90% done with your mix, and you're just putting in finishing touches.

But that's just my method - you're could easily be better for you.
I stopped using C4 completely a couple of years ago - I just started to find that I preferred the sound by mixing better, and now days I use a limiter pretty much exclusively to catch momentary overs. IMO if you are feeling the need to start 'maximising' with L1/2 then there's a good chance it could just be mixed a bit better. I use EQ almost always to cut, so invariably I end up with more headroom on everything, then I follow EQ on most tracks with compression, sometimes extreme as an effect but mostly subtle, so I tend to find things are plenty loud enough

so I totally agree with KKs point about mixing being more important - although saying that I'm sure any good mastering engineer would still make a big difference to anything i mix - if only because I have only NS1os.

Interestingly going to the mastering suite when one of my tracks was mastered for vinyl a few years ago and picking the brains of the engineer and just being there and hearing my mix translated onto their gear probably made quite a difference to my mixing
leedsquietman wrote: I would definately like to see more articles on good recording and mixing practices by the pros too.
A good book there worth checking out is "the mixing Engineer's Handbook" by Bobby Owsinski - apart from being a generally good read, a big part of the book is made up by interviews with quite a list of big name mixing engineers and he's quoted relevant bits of the interviews in line with the points throughout the chapters so you get to see their take in context. Highly recommend it

leedsquietman
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Post by leedsquietman » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:24 am

I have it. I love it. Good recommendation. Great information passed on by a slew of famous mixers past and present as well as the mixing education content.
http://soundcloud.com/umbriel-rising http://www.myspace.com/leedsquietmandemos Live 7.0.18 SUITE, Cubase 5.5.2], Soundforge 9, Dell XPS M1530, 2.2 Ghz C2D, 4GB, Vista Ult SP2, legit plugins a plenty, Alesis IO14.

djsynchro
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Post by djsynchro » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:30 pm

Cool article, I totally agree with changing the volume all the time, especially turning it down low and very low tends to be very revealing of problems. I don't really get the K-System either because our ears (and our eyes) are sensitive to CHANGE; anything that is static you will adapt to.

If you only ever listen to NS-10's they will sound fine! whereas if you switch them on after listening to a better speaker they'll sound like crap.
Currently reading the mixing engineer's handbook. It's quite good.
Last edited by djsynchro on Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tarekith
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Post by Tarekith » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:32 pm

I have that book for sale still if anyone is interested. :)

forge
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Post by forge » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:42 pm

Tarekith wrote:I have that book for sale still if anyone is interested. :)
keep it! good for reference!

c
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Re: Mastering (again...)

Post by c » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:56 pm

A note, from late October 2008: Rashad finally found a compressor plug in that he likes interface and soundwise enough to use it frequently R.H.]


Which one is that?

GUY SMILEY
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Re: Mastering (again...)

Post by GUY SMILEY » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:02 pm

An excellent interview.
I have the entire back catalogue of Basic Channel - the records fascinated me at the time for altering my perception of sound quality. I fundamentally agree with virtually everything stated. especially the use of attenuation in place of boosting, and judicious use of m/s processing. Thanks.

Tarekith
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Re:

Post by Tarekith » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:32 pm

forge wrote:
Tarekith wrote:I have that book for sale still if anyone is interested. :)
keep it! good for reference!
I have two copies.

djsynchro
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Re: Mastering (again...)

Post by djsynchro » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:01 am

Just read the article again; fucking awesome. Made a note for myself to close the UAD plug-ins GUI's and edit with the Nocturn, no looky looky at meters and graphs...OMG 4.87 db cut at 6.67 Khz whatever!

evon
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Re: Re:

Post by evon » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:28 pm

Tarekith wrote:
I have two copies.
How much + shipping?
fe real!

SubFunk
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Re: Mastering (again...)

Post by SubFunk » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:53 pm

djsynchro wrote:Just read the article again; fucking awesome. Made a note for myself to close the UAD plug-ins GUI's and edit with the Nocturn, no looky looky at meters and graphs...OMG 4.87 db cut at 6.67 Khz whatever!
of course whatever... that is the only thing i ever blamed soft plugs for, people are to tempted with them to mix and tweak after numbers or graphics, instead of only using and trusting their ears!

some old gear not even has printed any db or Hz or whatever scales on them, just knobs and buttons and you need to LISTEN!!! that is how it should be.

once you trust your ears and you let's say sweep through a tracks frequency with an EQ, you will be surprised what comes out and what not at certain frequencies, if you do that with the whole picture, meaning not soloing that track...
sometimes it's like a "chemical" reaction you can't predict. wonderfull.
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