Ableton Forum

you're a regular Don King. I disagree with Monty about politics but I've met people that have met him, he's a real person and composes himself very well, I respect that.

you're totally right though, I've been on the Red Bulls, starting to feel it now. I'll go eat some food and chill.

no recreational meds? none? nothing?



Live's sync issues are a very good topic that shouldn't be buried in a lame thread. I haven't had issues for the last year or so but it sucks that people do.

Tone Deft wrote: you're a regular Don King. I disagree with Monty about politics but I've met people that have met him, he's a real person and composes himself very well, I respect that.

you're totally right though, I've been on the Red Bulls, starting to feel it now. I'll go eat some food and chill.

no recreational meds? none? nothing?



Live's sync issues are a very good topic that shouldn't be buried in a lame thread. I haven't had issues for the last year or so but it sucks that people do.

I plead the 5th.

Tone Deft wrote: people will read the thread title and start up with the original retarded discussion. think about it.

Right, so you continue to bump the thread to chit chat about nothing at all?
Hypocrite much?

wtf is goin on again?

If you're mainly a composer, I would say, Go Logic.
If you mainly record audio, I would say, Go Pro Tools HD.
If you're a live artist, go Ableton.
so on and so on....

I use Live the most but I also use Logic and PTLe. I don't know why but stuff sounds clearer to my ears in Logic than Live. I don't know if I'm imagining it and I have no intention of doing loads of tests to prove my ears wrong but that's my honest experience. I still use Live about 80% of the time tho. It's workflow and responsiveness to your creative whims make it indispensable. But, and it's a big but, my ears tell me Logic is doing something better at some stage of the software because shit sounds clearer. I wish it didn't and then I would have no need to use it, but for mixdowns I trust Logic to give me a better finish than Live.
(Remember, I'm using Live 80% of the time and LOVE it)
I hope there is a good reason for this and that I'm not imagining it. In which case Live might be able to change whatever is wrong and some day I will dispense with Logic entirely. If there is no reason, or there is actually no difference, then I will continue to use Logic because I trust my ears. In this game, you've got to.

i really believe since the overhaul of lives audio engine it only boils down to the plugs...

still it is incredible how many people claim Live is mediocre in sound quality, i keep on hearing that around here over and over again...

one thing that comes to mind, is plugs... i remember once raving like crazy about SPL plugs (particular the EQ) robert jumped in and said it is nothing "that special" SPL does
(i think he jumped in because i was sooo... crazy raving like a school kid), any good coder can accomplish that... fair enough!
i totally believe, i mean obviously SPL and many other companies have those coders, that can accomplish that...

question i ask myself, why does ableton not code plugs above the average sound standard? this is purely a question!!!
after what robert once wrote here in a thread...

i am not in the boat saying Live is better or worse... about the plugs, yeah i like to argue myself to a certain extend...
and in the end those are your main tools you need to accomplish a good mix, well go figure...
who is mixing with a test file: recording / plain playback: clean...
those tests are utter nonsense and as far away from reality as it can go... you need plugs or outboard for a decent sounding mix.


and yeah, whatever use what suits you... i love ableton, and use mainly 3rd party plugs (i actually hardly use any Live Audio plugs, except the weirdo stuff efx stuff) so i am totally happy with it.

HeavyBeats wrote:The biggest Ableton problem is that you can hear if the song/project is make in Ableton.
I nowe a bunch of people would say "what you talking about" but i trust my ears

I can hear't too. I'm hooked on Live because of the workflow/creativity enhancements but Sonar sounds sooo much cleaner.

^^^ my guess is you guys are right... but it's the plugs, you can if at all hear characters of certain plugs used in a mix process... not the app itself, thou...

it's like in a cocktail... you will taste if a cocktail is mixed with a tanqueray gin or bombay sapphire (that is if you have a fine taste)... but you want taste the difference if a boston shaker or an ordinary shaker was used to mix the cocktail...

does that comparison make any sense?

Live sounds no worse than other DAWs.
Again, the only difference of any value is the different panning laws various DAWs use.
Live has a fixed panning law, Logic allows you to choose between various laws.
Sonar and Cubase give you choices as well.

Panning laws do NOTHING to sound quality, it's volume and the way it affects stereo spreads that
differentiate them, these things are easily dealt with in the mix.

http://www.harmony-central.com/articles ... ning_laws/

Also, when I did test this on my own machine,
it seemed that at the same master fader setting with the same audio file, Logic was 'louder'.
To get Live to sound as 'clear" all I had to do was turn up the volume.

I agree completely about third party plug ins, you use the same panning laws, and same plug ins in Live that you do in Logic etc.
you will not be able to tell witch mix of a song was done in witch DAW, THAT is the end all of that conversation to me.

Now having multiple choices in Logic, DP and the rest of how to write automation on a per track basis and other mixing features etc. well that level of complexity IMO is what motivates the persons mind into thinking Live sounds worse, much more than using Live's compressor etc.

simpleton wrote:

HeavyBeats wrote:The biggest Ableton problem is that you can hear if the song/project is make in Ableton.
I nowe a bunch of people would say "what you talking about" but i trust my ears

I can hear't too. I'm hooked on Live because of the workflow/creativity enhancements but Sonar sounds sooo much cleaner.

no need to bring John Gordon into this man, he'll kill the loser of this discussion when he's good well and ready dammit!

see what I mean machinesworking? you fail, I was right.

neener neener neener.

I just mixed a track in Live, Cubase 5 and Reaper. I exported the MIDIs and audio and used the same vst synths and used 24 bit / 44.1 Khz on the same soundcard. Same settings (I printed a screenshot of the plugin settings), same 3rd party plugins (no stock plugins), same levels, same 3rd party VST synths. I didn't do automation as that along with stock plugins are what make people believe x DAW is better than y DAW. I used DDMF Colour EQ and Sonalksis SV517mkII for any EQing, Arturia Prophet V, JP8V and Analog Factory, Jeroen Breebart Red Phatt Pro and Sonalksis SV315 mkII compressors, Smartelectronix Supaphaser, PSP 42 and Kjaerhus Classic Delay, and Native Instruments Guitar Rig 4 and the free TC Konnekt M40 reverb (hall reverb) someone recommended on here with Audio Damage ADverb for some plate reverb.

Using combined balance panner (the only type available in Live) and % panning (i.e. Live's panning only goes L50 to R50, Cubase and Reaper go L100 to R100, so if in Live I set panning to L25 (half way), I set that as L50 (half way) in Cubase and Reaper. Pan law set to -3dB in all cases.

Guess what ?? It sounds exactly the same .... EXACTLY THE SAME. Like not one slight difference at all. To me or any of the 7 people who listened to it.

Tone Deft wrote:see what I mean machinesworking? you fail, I was right.

neener neener neener.

Let's see? 3dot went away after you posted, and the conversation turned to fluff.
You bumped the thread a couple times, and people started posting on topic again.
Way to stack the cards in your favor!

Machinesworking wrote:/Also, when I did test this on my own machine,
it seemed that at the same master fader setting with the same audio file, Logic was 'louder'.
To get Live to sound as 'clear" all I had to do was turn up the volume.

Maybe that's all it is. But wouldn't it be wiser for Live to match this so that there really is NO difference? Whatever it is that's making my ears believe Logic sounds clearer, I just wish Live would match it. I really don't want to use two fucking DAWs, (imagine the time I would save?) but until this is laid to rest good and proper (and I will run a volume test on my current project to see if that's all it is) I'm gonna have to trust my ears.