Ableton Forum

friend_kami you make great points for sure, but in the end I wonder why you work exclusively in Live? Don't get me wrong I love the program, but I never have fully abandoned traditional DAWs as part of the writing and especially mixing and editing process. I would pretty much hate using live for anything over 25 tracks, IMO it's just not geared for that the way Digital Performer or even Logic is. Great program, but not specifically a micro editing, mixing and massive arrangement DAW if you compare it to the traditional ones.
I'm definitely of the mindset that you use the tools that are geared for the job and you're in the end going to get faster results. Logic or DP, both are great at larger arrangements, micro editing, deep MIDI, and mix down, both are compromises at best in terms of real time remixing or live performance.

Also, and not at all meaning this disrespectfully, I care much more about how Live handles real time performance issues than I do it's micro editing or 100 track capabilities. No other DAW is geared for performance really, and it's felt for years like Ableton is being pushed into competing with DP, Cubase, Logic, Sonar etc. by people who should just buckle down, learn and use one of those 20+ years of editing and mixing feature rich DAWs. It's really not that hard to work with both, I guess at one point I would get annoyed by it but for years I've used DP or Logic alongside Live, and it's not a total nightmare.

Like your music BTW.

Machinesworking wrote:friend_kami you make great points for sure, but in the end I wonder why you work exclusively in Live? Don't get me wrong I love the program, but I never have fully abandoned traditional DAWs as part of the writing and especially mixing and editing process. I would pretty much hate using live for anything over 25 tracks, IMO it's just not geared for that the way Digital Performer or even Logic is. Great program, but not specifically a micro editing, mixing and massive arrangement DAW if you compare it to the traditional ones.
I'm definitely of the mindset that you use the tools that are geared for the job and you're in the end going to get faster results. Logic or DP, both are great at larger arrangements, micro editing, deep MIDI, and mix down, both are compromises at best in terms of real time remixing or live performance.

Also, and not at all meaning this disrespectfully, I care much more about how Live handles real time performance issues than I do it's micro editing or 100 track capabilities. No other DAW is geared for performance really, and it's felt for years like Ableton is being pushed into competing with DP, Cubase, Logic, Sonar etc. by people who should just buckle down, learn and use one of those 20+ years of editing and mixing feature rich DAWs. It's really not that hard to work with both, I guess at one point I would get annoyed by it but for years I've used DP or Logic alongside Live, and it's not a total nightmare.

Like your music BTW.

i'm not working exclusively with live any more. i switched to live and i found that my workflow and the way i was processing audio and midi went a long way ahead, but as my projects grew and my knowledge of live and it's shortcomings (and the need for better handling of.. well, everything basically) grew i switched over to other solutions. right now i am using live mainly a sessiondrum library and an audio processor and rewiring it elsewhere. i don't like it, but it's a work around i can live with for now. trust me, i am very excited about live 9, because live has made me rethink how i work and how i look at (or hear, whichever floats your boat) audio and processing but when you get grinded to a halt due to live not made for big projects then it's time to leave. if ableton play their cards right, they will blow the market away. sadly i don't think this is going to happen though, given their history since the latest release and what they've done since. in the mean time new production platforms are showing up and old platforms are adapting to abletons once unique way of dealing with audio and midi and their nonlinear approach to working.

but count me in for a full scheduled testrun with L9 when it's finally available, because i am very excited about it. if it's done right i can see myself switching back full time, but i doubt that it will be. just as an example, they released an update some time ago which was meant to fix midi timing but yeah, it didn't. it made it somewhat tighter, but far from tight enough in a realworld situation. i do work with live exclusively when doing experimental stuff though, given live's nature and they way it invites the user to experiment, and it's very fast to work with up to a point. this point is something that i am getting closer to faster on a day to day basis so i assume that soon i will stop using live for that as well.

in a live performance it's great though, except when it crashes heh.

NO!

friend_kami wrote:i'm not working exclusively with live any more.

I never have, I've written whole songs in Live, but never ten songs in a row in Live. I've used a ton of DAWs and I realized that I wasn't willing to compromise my workflow for just one. It is/was slightly painful to learn more than one workflow, but it's far less painful than dealing with the compromises you have to make in a single DAW. Program change issues in regards to external instruments in Live come to mind right away, there are many others. I'm pretty resigned to the as of now reality that no one DAW is going to offer me all the features I want in a DAW, since it seems live performance electronic musicians are more interested in playing with a mouse and the sequence order than playing multiple instruments or how hardware interacts with Live, and no traditional DAW is offering anything like Live in terms of performance and beat fixing etc.

Tone Deft wrote: it's a minority of people that are pissed off, a few loud rude voices.

I don't know there are many users who use Live as DAW here, but not a few people would be experiencing such feeling.

the forum doesn't mean shit. Ableton can contact just about anyone Professional out there and get feedback and product soak time and real feedback from them.

Pro claims fair amount of money for 'beta-test'. If it is official release we would know the preview of it as well as life-time upgrade pros.

Ableton Live 9 new features: what we want to see

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/abl ... see-545509

"I'd like the sound engine to be a little warmer; even if it's fake I'll take it."

Aww yeah!

Let's hit the 17.000 views this week!!!! And STILL no news!? Ableton Whats Up!?

If they got nothing with substance, why talking about it?

Remember share feature. I guess they've been aware that it can ruin some business plan by promising features that will not be there at final release.

Enjoy the Silence I would say

Machinesworking wrote:It is/was slightly painful to learn more than one workflow, but it's far less painful than dealing with the compromises you have to make in a single DAW.

Blissful ignorance is key, here

I'm too busy using Live 8 to really give a fuck.

Oh Wow! When was Live 8 released!?!!

Still at Live 7 here!

edit: oops, wrong thread!

This is never wrong to rant about live 9 not coming

doom_Oo7 wrote:This is never wrong to rant about live 9 not coming

You are right! Now more than 17.000 views and not any news from the Abes yet!?