Ableton Forum

LoopStationZebra wrote:Hmm. I'm not sure that the Man in Black is the Smoke Monster.

If the Man in Black is now Locke (or possessed his spirit or whatever), then why did Locke need Ben to 'summon' the smoke monster a few episodes back? Surely he could simply have turned into the Smoke Monster at any time and scared the bejeezus out of Ben? Why the elaborate plan? Why did they even have to go down into the temple? The Smoke Monster has shown that it can appear pretty much anywhere it wants throughout the island.

Did you actually watch the episode?

If MiB had turned in to the monster in front of Ben that would have left a pretty big hole in his plan - convince Ben that Locke is the leader, that Ben has to do everything Ben says and in turn get Ben to kill Jacob. Actually it would have fucked his plan royally.

Plus there is plenty of other stuff that supports MiB and Smokey being one and the same.

No. I didn't watch the episode. C'mon man.


So this was sort of a Clark Kent>PhoneBooth>Superman thing? Maybe. Maaaaybe. I mean, Locke was not in the same scene with the Smoke Monster. Hmm.


But the whole 'convincing Ben' part happened WITH the Smoke Monster scene. Ben's daughter threatening to put a smack down on Daddy if he doesn't follow Locke. THAT's what convinced Ben to follow Locke. Not Locke telling Ben to find the monster.

Now that we know Locke isn't really Locke, but the Man in Black, the temple scene lead-up is interesting. Ben went first and fell down that hole - a hole that the Man in Black knew was there. Nah. I still think that they are separate. It's a lot of work to get Ben to fall into a hole, be in the temple, then you gotta quickly change into the Smoke Monster and work your mojo. heh.



Question:
Where did all the children go that were on the Oceanic flight? We saw them briefly a season or two ago when Sawyer was in the polar bear cage - when they were marched by... But where are they now? Seems like there were a whole mess of them, right?

LoopStationZebra wrote:Now that we know Locke isn't really Locke, but the Man in Black, the temple scene lead-up is interesting. Ben went first and fell down that hole - a hole that the Man in Black knew was there. Nah. I still think that they are separate. It's a lot of work to get Ben to fall into a hole, be in the temple, then you gotta quickly change into the Smoke Monster and work your mojo. heh.

Question:
Where did all the children go that were on the Oceanic flight? We saw them briefly a season or two ago when Sawyer was in the polar bear cage - when they were marched by... But where are they now? Seems like there were a whole mess of them, right?

MiB's plan was to have Ben kill Jacob, what better way to get him to do it than have Smokey tell him to follow Locke's (ie MiB's) instructions to the letter. If MiB isn't Smokey then they're on the same team, but I reckon he is. It would make more sense of Christian's appearances - he arrived on the island in a coffin the same way as Locke, so its logical that MiB was Christian as well. Plus when Eko was killed by Smokey he said something to Locke before he died, Locke repeated it as "we're next" but it actually makes more sense if Eko said "you're next" to Locke.

God knows what happened to the children, there were a number of other survivors that went with them as well that we haven't seen. Or maybe we have and they're just not important. Maybe they are off the island.

Well, you could be right. Smokey and the MiB might be one and the same. I'm just intriqued by the notion of the Smoke Monster being this 3rd party creature that's truly the island's security system. Unswayed by the power struggles but existing to correct events or something.

Fuck. Now that I think back on the one glyph that showed Set facing off against some kind of snake (or smoke, lol) creature (Apep no doubt!), it seems that I need to abandon my intrigue. heh.

welp. now i'm just angry i have to wait another 9 months or so to find out what happens.

pulsoc wrote:

LoopStationZebra wrote:

Amberience wrote:Loop; I was thinking a similar thing, but was thinking Christian God and Satan - Lost seems to have quite a bit of connection to Miltons' Paradise Lost.

Indeed! Also, have any of you guys ever read 'The Keep'? Or seen the film? Good stuff. About these two ancient beings that have been fighting for ages and ages. Each generation adopts them as part of their mythology (in the case of the book it's a vampire vs. an angel of God), but they are above all of that. It's merely mankind trying to explain who they are as best they can; without ever really grasping the truth. I think these two characters are just that.

So is it man vs. nature? Law vs. chaos? Change vs. consistency?

This is starting to remind me of the idea that we interpret "visitations" depending on our cultural perspective, from old testament jehovah to UFO abductions.

I wouldn't get caught up in dichotomies. I think part of the theme of the show is the dissolution of classic A-B philosophy. I think they've taken elements of religion and put them up against elements of non-religion. So yes, there may be a battle between two forces, but that isn't the only thing going on here. They've got a lot of different story lines all woven together, which is what sets it apart from your trashy TV shows.

They make the shit up as they go along.

/thread

Its easy to get hung up on everything being black vs white as well, forgetting the many shades of grey in between.

There are various battles going on between Ben, Eloise, Locke and Widmore (and others) but that doesn't mean they're not all on the same side, with that side looking like being Jacob / The Island. The four of them appeared to work together to get everyone back to the island, with Jacob stepping in to get Hurley and most likely Sayid back as well.

One thing I'm not sure about is Jacob's Cabin, if you go back over the episodes there is no firm evidence of who built it or when and who has lived there and when. Ben has never met Jacob before so we can't rely on him. Horace can't be relied on as its possible it was MiB rather than Horace that appeared to Locke. Ilana never says it was Jacob's cabin or that she was even looking for him (it could have been MiB or Richard).

How about Jacob and MiB actually being two sides / personalities of the same entity / person?

b0unce, are you a fan?

b0unce wrote:They copy ideas people think up on internet forums.

/continue_thread

fixed.

iv just caught up. its totally awesome. is it one more season left or two?

One final season left, starting in January 2010.

I'm so there Neb.

my wife and I met the year lost started. We have invested our entire relationship in this TV. if the final season doesnt go well I fear our marriage wont survive.

b0unce wrote:They make the shit up as they go along.

/thread

well yea they have to.

its the nature of a television show.

but the "shit" they make up is still 10x more interesting on a bad day than anything else on TV.