finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

[i3igTripplets]

A truly unique concept would be a hexagonal grid, move away from the Cartesian X-Y thing. This isn't "new" just "newish".

Hexagons are OVER, I'm all about dodecahedrons now.

Great! now dodecahedrons are OVER

[kb420]

[Ryanmf]

OVER

[lethal_pizzle]

Right on commander

[kb420]

Rhombic Dodecahedron.

[Ryanmf]

Rhombic Dodecahedron.

I'll never be able to finish a song until someone releases a piece of software with a clip matrix exactly like this.

I'll trigger samples with my Minority Report gloves and/or mind.

[kb420]

I'll never be able to finish a song until someone releases a piece of software with a clip matrix exactly like this.

I'll trigger samples with my Minority Report gloves and/or mind.

Minority Report gloves FTW!!!!!

[Nokatus]

I think the name "Bitwig" and the whole wig thing is an inside reference to the, umm, friendly jabs about certain live sets looking like bald guys checking their e-mail

<tinfoil hat>
It would also be hilarious if this indeed turned out to be a planned Ableton campaign after all, and Bitwig Studio was actually BS as the name suggests, hah.
</tinfoil hat>

But in all seriousness: I'm super interested in the product and will be trying the beta/demo as soon as I can get my hands on it. Looking at all the stuff on their site, I get this... vibe... of many things done right. It's an enticing idea, having a modern Live-like host that concentrates on the basics but with more flexible editing, was coded from ground up to this point in one push, designed to function efficiently without any architectural baggage of incremental feature creep behind the scenes and such.

As there are rumors of Live 9 being a major overhaul in that respect as well, this will be a VERY interesting year in this particular host segment. I almost can't wait!

[HeadrickProductions]

I can't play keys for siht but would LOVE to get a Rhodes of that caliber. a cat could walk on the keyboard and it would sound amazing. that guy's got a great touch.

The funny thing is that the modern rhodes is more expensive and much heavier and the action blows. And they look so slick with the wurly tops. Rumor is they are going to make their version of a wurly at some point.

Really trying to support these folks who are out there making modern vintage stuff. Asher, VV, M smith, volcano, dunnet (and futuristic Ti drums). All the big companies are mass producing cheap crap or charging double for good stuff based on the name.

My buddy is a great guitar player and never really sat down to because piano was never his thing. When I got one of these babies he came over and played for 6 hours without stopping. The thing has so much soul it feels like it was a house piano at motown.

To all who asked it's no me in the vid. I don't post on youtube or soundcloud etc. Just not my thing. I already waste to much practice time playing on these forums.

edit, thought about asking for a midi setup installed custom and then almost kicked myself for thinking it

[pgmjsd]

To those of you who insist that Bitwig must be Ableton in disguise, I'm sorry, but that's idiotic.

Yeah, I was just trying to think of a way that the companies could be working together in some reasonable (if very unusual) way.

Seems clear to me that bitwig's stuff is written from the ground up. Runs on Linux for cryin' out loud! The look (of the screenshots), well... they do have that main UX guy from Ableton, right? So, yeah. Also, all 'minimal' look UIs are going to be kind of similar. I'm glad bitwig also chose the minimal look. BUT, the look *is* quite different when you examine it closely.

So, agreed. Bitwig studio could not be in any way related to Live 8's code base at least.

To anyone who suggests that Bitwig Studio looks too much like live to be anything but a cheap knock-off, I'd love to hear your description of how you would implement a clip matrix without the results of your work resembling Live in any way. Extra points for an explanation of how your arbitrary decision to distance your UI design from Live's represents an improvement in usability.

Yeah, you don't want to make the ARP vs Moog mistake. ARP reportedly designed things just to be different from Moog, and as you might expect... some things they should have said "Ya know, that can't be improved on".

Regarding bitwig being Live 9 - Maybe. I think at least there must be some agreement between the two companies.

This is coming from a 20+ year software engineering veteran, FWIW.

Most software companies (here in the US at least) have non-compete agreements preventing key employees from using proprietary knowledge (which the company paid for them to learn) to build a competing product for specific time period after they leave the company. The only way to really avoid non-compete lawsuits is to wait it out.

Or live in a state like California where non-compete clauses are unenforceable.

I'm aware that some states have that. I'm not sure that it completely prevents lawsuits though. Really large companies, larger than Ableton (like Oracle), can sometimes make life miserable with loads of top notch lawyers... but that's a story for another day.

It seems strange to me that a successful company like Ableton would just let go of key employees like that.

Many of Ableton's development decisions have seemed strange to me, too.

Maybe the employment laws / practices in Germany are different?

Maybe? In a different country in the labor-friendly EU with a different electorate, a different judiciary, a different history? Yeah, maybe.

Easy there, just asking because I don't know for sure.

It turns out that non-compete clauses can only be enforced in Germany for a maximum of two years. Even then the former employer must pay a minimum of half the employee's gross salary for the period. And there may be other stipulations depending on the work agreement, etc.

Yes, the timeframe is also fairly short here (in NYC). However, under the right conditions (like not being burdened by a huge old code base), you can get a lot done in two years.

Archive.org scraped pages listing these guys as the developers of Bitwig as far back as March 2009, and we don't have any way of knowing when they left Ableton. In any event, Ableton would have needed to pay these guys not to work to have any hope of enforcing a non-compete clause.

That's been known to happen, but Ableton isn't that big of a company to act like that.

Anyway, thanks for the response.
I was just trying to imagine some realistic way/reason that the two companies could be cooperating. It would have to be a bizarre arrangement, was my point (if there was a point). Mostly idle speculation.

[Ryanmf]

Yeah, you don't want to make the ARP vs Moog mistake. ARP reportedly designed things just to be different from Moog, and as you might expect... some things they should have said "Ya know, that can't be improved on".

Amen.

Really large companies, larger than Ableton (like Oracle), can sometimes make life miserable with loads of top notch lawyers... but that's a story for another day.

Oh yeah. And based on the brief interview with Bitwig's CEO referenced earlier in the thread, they seem to be aware that it's a real possibility, but hopeful that they'll be allowed to do their thing.

Easy there, just asking because I don't know for sure.

Sorry, I sometimes get a bit carried away. Thanks for the thoughtful response in spite of my hyperbolic e-arrogance.

[c33]

Looks interesting! And it's another reason to be glad Ableton is taking their time with their next release.

[Tone Deft]

The funny thing is that the modern rhodes is more expensive and much heavier and the action blows.

damn and the specs looked good, even midi out. problem with used ones is the maintenance.

Everything In It's Place by Radiohead might be my favorite Rhodes tune.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrpGhEVyrk0

[HeadrickProductions]

The funny thing is that the modern rhodes is more expensive and much heavier and the action blows.

damn and the specs looked good, even midi out. problem with used ones is the maintenance.

Everything In It's Place by Radiohead might be my favorite Rhodes tune.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrpGhEVyrk0

The old ones are so damn heavy, and you better know how to fix it on the fly if you don't have your own piano tech with ya. Funniest thing ever is seeing some 160 pound guy trying to lug an 88 key around.

These boys are doing it right! 64 key is so much smarter for that size. So much experience repairing that they are able to take the best of the old ones and make them better.

I was going to see if they could do midi (which I know they can) but that just seems counter productive.

If your at Namm hit their booth up. I hope they are next to rhodes booth again but I think that mistake will not happen again

I want them to make a 44 wurly remake so bad. Play old ones but would love a new one

I'm out gotta get out of this room cause the wallz are closing in.

Edit: radio head shows are always enlightening

[pencilrocket]

I've read the djtechtool blog and it said there are possibility to being sued by Ableton. I think so too. In 10 years of the Ableton's history, who would think only 3 or 4 persons held whole idea, grpahic design, UI design, and strategy of the Live? Who would think no other manager and worker didn't have any responsibility for the Live's development? If these persons thought they held all of the thing previously mentioned that would be flagrant arrogance. They would never earn the respect.

The reason of the place where they establishded their company is near by the Ableton,I think, is that they prospected of Ableton's worker jumping ship as easily as possible. How wily they are.