Ableton Forum

It begs the question, How do you win a war against an enemy that will commit suicide to attack you by killing them? This of all battles, of all anti terrorist wars, makes the least sense.
"Our enemy hates us enough to kill themselves in suicide attacks because we have invaded their land, therefore further and more obviously deliberate invasion is the answer!"

It's like a Monty Python sketch, yet people buy that as a solution??
Oh wait, that's right, I keep on forgetting, war is the only answer.......

I seem to remember you being all for Iraq even as late in the game as right before you were sent out to Afghanistan M. Breqs? Something about if you could go to Iraq you would have. So your opinion change, or are you of a different opinion than your country?
I don't forget much, just where my keys are.

M. Bréqs wrote:

ThrowAway wrote:I must be troll scripted....

No, you're not. Not for me anyways.

Regarding your earlier point, for Canada the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan are not related. We didn't participate in the invasion of Iraq, but we did for Afghanistan. The two conflicts are not connected in terms of Canadian foreign policy.

We supported the Afghan campaign because it was in our self-interest, and it passed a moral test of validity.

We refused to support the Iraq invasion because it was not in our self interest, and would not have passed a moral test of validity.

'nuff said.

L8er

yeah, i remember that too.

???




anyway, i still don't support our troops.


fuck y'all.






.lm.

Machinesworking wrote: It's like a Monty Python sketch, yet people buy that as a solution??
Oh wait, that's right, I keep on forgetting, war is the only answer.......

That's right, you're figuring it out now. They hate us because of our freedom and we must have unending war because of that. Now keep repeating it as you fall asleep at night...you'll feel better in the morning!

Machinesworking wrote:It begs the question, How do you win a war against an enemy that will commit suicide to attack you by killing them? This of all battles, of all anti terrorist wars, makes the least sense.

terrorism is a tactic, it's a war against a tactic, there has never been a war declared against a tactic. tactics can start wars but nobody in history has been stupid enough to declare a war against a tactic. you cannot draw a geographical line around a #$%ing tactic!! it makes no sense.

Bush doesn't even get the f-ing geography right, Afghanistan is not Iraq, two different wars. on top of that it's people coming INTO Iraq to kill mostly American soldiers.

if this shit goes on for another 10 years (which it very well could) they'll be fighting 15 year old kids who were born the day of the invasion, a renewable supply of soldiers, possibly an endless supply.




so I did some reading...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partitioni ... man_Empire
at the end of WWI the Ottoman Empire was officially divided up amongst the 'victors' of the war. England was given modern day Israel. so... given that, the Palestinians just didn't get the memo or what? (asked in a smart ass way.) I agree they've been shit on but they lost that war, right?

just asking questions to learn more, not making an argument.

Machinesworking wrote:I seem to remember you being all for Iraq even as late in the game as right before you were sent out to Afghanistan M. Breqs? Something about if you could go to Iraq you would have. So your opinion change, or are you of a different opinion than your country?
I don't forget much, just where my keys are.

M. Bréqs wrote:

ThrowAway wrote:I must be troll scripted....

No, you're not. Not for me anyways.

Regarding your earlier point, for Canada the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan are not related. We didn't participate in the invasion of Iraq, but we did for Afghanistan. The two conflicts are not connected in terms of Canadian foreign policy.

We supported the Afghan campaign because it was in our self-interest, and it passed a moral test of validity.

We refused to support the Iraq invasion because it was not in our self interest, and would not have passed a moral test of validity.

'nuff said.

L8er

i cant agree more. as i remember you stated that the war in iraq supported all western self interests weather we liked it or not.

Tone Deft wrote: at the end of WWI the Ottoman Empire was officially divided up amongst the 'victors' of the war. England was given modern day Israel. so... given that, the Palestinians just didn't get the memo or what? (asked in a smart ass way.) I agree they've been shit on but they lost that war, right?

just asking questions to learn more, not making an argument.

No, the Arabs in the region fought on the side of the Allies (Anglo/French) against the Turks (Ottomans) in return for the promise of independence and self determination.

Some, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon (though it's kind of hard to think of Lebanon as independent), eventually got it. The Palestinians got Israel, the land they had lived on for 1500 years was given to the Zionists, Israel was proclaimed and the Palestinians went to camps, as refugees.

It only adds to the tragedy when you consider that a lot of these families still retain the deeds of ownership and keys to their homes, worthless objects, constant reminders of their displacement and humiliation.

When they fled their homes and villages over 60 years ago many of them thought they would only be gone for a few weeks.

I appreciate that smutek, thanks. been using wikipedia as a reference, it's showing weakness in this area, all it states in the Palestine entry is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

Ottoman rule over the eastern Mediterranean lasted until World War I when the Ottomans sided with Germany and the Central Powers. During World War I, the Ottomans were driven from much of the region by the United Kingdom during the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire.

which completely glosses over the point of your post.


clearly they missed an interesting bit of history, damn, why have I put off seeing Lawrence Of Arabia...
http://www.merip.org/palestine-israel_p ... prime.html

During 1915-16, as World War I was underway, the British High Commissioner in Egypt, Sir Henry McMahon, secretly corresponded with Husayn ibn `Ali, the patriarch of the Hashemite family and Ottoman governor of Mecca and Medina. McMahon convinced Husayn to lead an Arab revolt against the Ottoman Empire, which was aligned with Germany against Britain and France in the war. McMahon promised that if the Arabs supported Britain in the war, the British government would support the establishment of an independent Arab state under Hashemite rule in the Arab provinces of the Ottoman Empire, including Palestine. The Arab revolt, led by T. E. Lawrence ("Lawrence of Arabia") and Husayn's son Faysal, was successful in defeating the Ottomans, and Britain took control over much of this area during World War I.

Can you score any good hash over there? Or is it just poppy?

um, so your a "kaffer"? must be nice to work on music and not worry about your life. None the less your a canadian, come back home dude....alive.

Believe it or not.....your gear is now infested with airborn gastro, not cool.
Compressed air wont save them.

by the way, you should keep your updates to yourself.....just make the music, or your superiors will find this out, they know. Your in a security COMSEC violation soldier!

Tone Deft wrote:I appreciate that smutek, thanks. been using wikipedia as a reference, it's showing weakness in this area, all it states in the Palestine entry is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

Ottoman rule over the eastern Mediterranean lasted until World War I when the Ottomans sided with Germany and the Central Powers. During World War I, the Ottomans were driven from much of the region by the United Kingdom during the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire.

which completely glosses over the point of your post.


clearly they missed an interesting bit of history, damn, why have I put off seeing Lawrence Of Arabia...
http://www.merip.org/palestine-israel_p ... prime.html

During 1915-16, as World War I was underway, the British High Commissioner in Egypt, Sir Henry McMahon, secretly corresponded with Husayn ibn `Ali, the patriarch of the Hashemite family and Ottoman governor of Mecca and Medina. McMahon convinced Husayn to lead an Arab revolt against the Ottoman Empire, which was aligned with Germany against Britain and France in the war. McMahon promised that if the Arabs supported Britain in the war, the British government would support the establishment of an independent Arab state under Hashemite rule in the Arab provinces of the Ottoman Empire, including Palestine. The Arab revolt, led by T. E. Lawrence ("Lawrence of Arabia") and Husayn's son Faysal, was successful in defeating the Ottomans, and Britain took control over much of this area during World War I.

Tone, read up on the Balfour Declaration. This is basically what fucked the Israel/Palestine situation. PS: Wikipedia is to be taken with a grain of salt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_De ... on_of_1917

1ntelligent Fraud wrote:

Tone Deft wrote:I appreciate that smutek, thanks. been using wikipedia as a reference, it's showing weakness in this area, all it states in the Palestine entry is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

Ottoman rule over the eastern Mediterranean lasted until World War I when the Ottomans sided with Germany and the Central Powers. During World War I, the Ottomans were driven from much of the region by the United Kingdom during the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire.

which completely glosses over the point of your post.


clearly they missed an interesting bit of history, damn, why have I put off seeing Lawrence Of Arabia...
http://www.merip.org/palestine-israel_p ... prime.html

During 1915-16, as World War I was underway, the British High Commissioner in Egypt, Sir Henry McMahon, secretly corresponded with Husayn ibn `Ali, the patriarch of the Hashemite family and Ottoman governor of Mecca and Medina. McMahon convinced Husayn to lead an Arab revolt against the Ottoman Empire, which was aligned with Germany against Britain and France in the war. McMahon promised that if the Arabs supported Britain in the war, the British government would support the establishment of an independent Arab state under Hashemite rule in the Arab provinces of the Ottoman Empire, including Palestine. The Arab revolt, led by T. E. Lawrence ("Lawrence of Arabia") and Husayn's son Faysal, was successful in defeating the Ottomans, and Britain took control over much of this area during World War I.

Tone, read up on the Balfour Declaration. This is basically what fucked the Israel/Palestine situation. PS: Wikipedia is to be taken with a grain of salt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_De ... on_of_1917

Yes, the Balfour Declaration. That was just a cog of many cogs. Its not as if the Jews were never there. They'd been there for thousands of years.



The real reason why the Israel/Palestine situation is 'fucked up' as you put it, is because the Muslim religion is the most intolerant hate filled, sexist, homophobic load of shit dictated to the Sahaba by a Warlord mad man murdering pedophile genocidal maniac named Muhammad who tortured people, robbed meccan caravans, cheated on his wives, ordered political assassinations, and ordered death to those who left his religion.. End of story. Now there are a Billion people following this lunatics ramblings so everyones screwed and there will never be peace.

Of course, until the entire earth has been transformed into a gigantic Muslim state where every athiest, jew or christian and any other non-muslim either submits or is killed. Then there will be peace! Praise Allah. yaaaa!

Olga wrote:
The real reason why the Israel/Palestine situation is 'fucked up' as you put it, is because the Muslim religion is the most intolerant hate filled, sexist, homophobic load of shit dictated to the Sahaba by a Warlord mad man murdering pedophile genocidal maniac named Muhammad who tortured people, robbed meccan caravans, cheated on his wives, ordered political assassinations, and ordered death to those who left his religion.. End of story. Now there are a Billion people following this lunatics ramblings so everyones screwed and there will never be peace.

Of course, until the entire earth has been transformed into a gigantic Muslim state where every athiest, jew or christian and any other non-muslim either submits or is killed. Then there will be peace! Praise Allah. yaaaa!

Well,,
Ohhkayyy,,

lets see where this one goes ,,,

Homebelly wrote:Well,,
Ohhkayyy,,

lets see where this one goes ,,,

I did read about the Balfour Declaration. this shit's been going on for a loooooooooooooooooooooooong time. both sides just need to chill the fuck out.

Tone Deft wrote: I did read about the Balfour Declaration. this shit's been going on for a loooooooooooooooooooooooong time. both sides just need to chill the fuck out.

cop on man, 1917 isn't a looooooooooooooooooooooooong time ago. Might be for one person, but for a family it's only a blip. I'm not even in my thirties yet and as a teen I used to chill with my grandfather who was over 20 during the 1916 easter rising. Man, I can skip my parents generation and STILL have a direct link to the trials & tribulations of his life, and that period of time.

of course, if your grandfather is killed while his house is reduced to rubble by an occupying force....you may miss out on such opportunities to chill with gramps.

long story short, you're an ignorant fuckwit