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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:15 pm
by 9V
Did I write "the culmination"?! I just wrote the italians started tonal music rules in 1500. The rest is an improvement of the original italian work (above all: Gioseffo Zarlino). But the basis are there. Not to mention the score notation, invented by the italian Guido Monaco 1000 years ago, and still used. Nothing has changed in 99,9% of composed, written and played music...
"2011 music" included...
Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:22 pm
by stringtapper
9V wrote:Did I write "the culmination"?! I just wrote the italians started tonal music rules in 1500. The rest is an improvement of the original italian work (above all: Gioseffo Zarlino). But the basis are there. And nothing has changed in 99,9% of composed music...
And that's simply wrong again. Zarlino put forth the rules of
counterpoint in the modal context, NOT a tonal context because tonality didn't EXIST when Zarlino's was alive.
And even THEN, Zarlino's was a theoretical work representing the culmination of practices that had preceded HIM, practices that were NOT only developed by the Italians. In order to teach history we must present these milestones, these culminations, but in reality history is a continuum, and to say that any one culture "did it" and that "it" happened at one pinpoint time is just silly.
Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:27 pm
by 9V
you keep on flaunting your culture, etc. But the grounds are there: guido monaco, gioseffo zarlino, the italian theoretical work. Still used nowadays worldwide...
Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:36 pm
by stringtapper
9V wrote:you keep on flaunting your culture, etc. But the grounds are there: guido monaco, gioseffo zarlino, the italian theoretical work. Still used nowadays worldwide...
No one is denying the Italians played a huge role. You are the one one who doesn't seem to know about what other cultures contributed. Without Rameau what is modern harmony? Which Italian made the advances he did with the fundamental bass concept? Certainly not Tartini. Where are the Italians after 1750? Answer: the Germans took the practice over and refined it to make it what we have TODAY. So yes, it was the Italians… and the French… and the Germans… and…
Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:16 pm
by 9V
but this is OT, by the way. The real topic is: "MIDI" tracks are still music, because they can be translated/converted into music score. Infact there is a relationship between midi events and notes. Both score notes and MIDI events are editable, replayable, writable and readable as "music". "AUDIO" tracks, instead, are sound, because they can be modified only with sound restoration tools, which are not musical parameters, but sound parameters (sound engeineering). The ones who don't understand this difference HERE are the american users, above all. Why? As far as I can understand, because for them "music" is the sound, not the code. When they say "music" they mean "the sound". Infact many of them say: "MIDI is not music, because it makes no sound". To me music is what you can edit, write, re-edit, play, read (the code). It is a matter of rules. Maybe in USA when you modify a sound you are making music, as an olistic "concept"... i don't know. Here music is still written on stave... I wonder how can you write on the stave this:
Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:27 pm
by stringtapper
9V wrote:but this is OT, by the way. The real topic is: "MIDI" tracks are still music, because they can be translated/converted into music score. Infact there is a relationship between midi events and notes. "AUDIO" tracks are only sound, because they can be modified only with sound restoration tools, which are not musical parameters, but sound parameters (sound engeneering). The ones who don't understand this difference HERE are the american users, above all. Why? As far as I can understand, because for them "music" is the sound, not the code. When they say "music" they mean "the sound". Infact many of them say: "MIDI is not music, because it makes no sound". To me music is what you can edit, write, re-edit, play, read (the code).
And again (this is getting tiresome) the broadened definition of "musical parameters" encompassing that which can be created, shaped, modified, and edited in the
spectral domain is NOT originally American, but originates in the Paris and Cologne schools of composition from the mid-twentieth century.
But even
that is OT, because the real point you miss is that there is already a well-developed practice of composition that involves manipulation of sound materials via numerous methods that are
musical methods of organizing sound. You don't see them as being musical methods because they don't fit your (apparently limited) understanding of musical practice as it existed up until the early 20th century, but they are, and the world of composers has passed you by in this regard.
Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:31 pm
by stringtapper
9V wrote:i don't know.
These are the truest words you have spoken in this thread. I encourage you to
try to know. It will help you grow much more than simply repeating a mantra like a religious fanatic.
Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:40 pm
by 9V
this is a typical "berlusconi" answer...
Your "spectral domain" composed music is 0,0001% of what humans call "music" (notes and pauses in time running on a tonal route). 99,9% of music is writable on score sheet . And I guess that avant-guard "sound" modern music is not considered music by 99% of population, unless you explain it is kind of "sperimental attempt to invent something new" etc. Otherwise they say: "nice sounds!" not "nice music"...
Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:49 pm
by stringtapper
stringtapper wrote:9V wrote:i don't know.
These are the truest words you have spoken in this thread. I encourage you to
try to know. It will help you grow much more than simply repeating a mantra like a religious fanatic.
.
Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:53 pm
by 9V
a "mantra" is a serious thing, but maybe in USA is a bad word, because not american cultural standard... who knows
Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:59 pm
by stringtapper
9V wrote:who knows
9V wrote:i don't know.
Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:10 am
by 9V
Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:18 am
by stringtapper
Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:30 am
by 9V
i am still waiting for your famous music
edited in the spectral domain haha
Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:34 am
by stringtapper
9V wrote:i am still waiting for your famous music
edited in the spectral domain haha
You need me to do your homework for you? You are a lazy student indeed!
9V wrote:i don't know.
Let's leave it at that shall we?
Ok one more, for fun.
9V wrote:i don't know.
