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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:35 pm
by Robert Henke
@ Punky921:
just to make things clear: I personally would enjoy much more moderation here,
but I personally would also not sell presets or any kind of 'content' to people
who are not willing to discover and learn their tools by themselves. All previous
statements of mine here regarding this topic reflect company policy and not
necessarily my personal ideas.
Cheers, Robert
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:37 pm
by nebulae
^ dude, you just pulled a Palin...stick to the party line and quit goin' off script! Geez, you can't count on anyone anymore!
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:39 pm
by Machinesworking
Punky921 wrote:Robert Henke wrote:We do not believe that enforcing things will help a lot. It just raises a lot of questions:
what is racist? where does an offense start? when is a comment off topic? etc... A healthy community is by far better in handling those questions then we could ever be.
We only remove spam, and we sometimes write PMs to people.
The fact that we are discussing this here is actually already an achievement. Sometimes people get a bit lost behind their screens, and a gentle reminder is a better tool to get things back to a more moderate level then anything else.
Robert
Robert,
I really think you're kind of deluded, to be honest. I post on several other boards, some related to electronic music, and some not, and this is the only unmoderated one I post on with any frequency. And this board definitely has the worst signal to noise ratio of sheer stupidity.
Good mods know the difference between racism and not racism (frankly, it shouldn't ever come up, as it's not relevant to what we're SUPPOSED to be discussing here). They also know the difference between on and off topic. And I'll trust a few good mods over the cowboy bullshit that is the unmoderated internet any day.
I do not believe that this community is healthy. I believe it's juvenile and foolish, and I think a little bit of moderation would go a LONG way to improving everyone's experience here. If anything, in the last several months of watching this forum, I've seen it do nothing but get worse and worse and worse.
I disagree. Plenty of other boards become snarky and ruled pretty much completely by the long time members. I've seen people banned for ridiculous reasons plenty of times on every other board I've visited, and the signal to noise ratio is the same, it's just less bar jokes and more office joke.
One thing you as a relatively new member aren't aware of is this board ALWAYS turns shitty right before Ableton announce a new upgrade to live. It's actually sort of a tradition.
In some ways I'm convinced Live's faster-than-the-industry-standard turn around is due in part to wanting to make sure the boards remain somewhat civil!!
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:03 pm
by Crash
Robert Henke wrote:@ Punky921:
just to make things clear: I personally would enjoy much more moderation here,
but I personally would also not sell presets or any kind of 'content' to people
who are not willing to discover and learn their tools by themselves. All previous
statements of mine here regarding this topic reflect company policy and not
necessarily my personal ideas.
Cheers, Robert
But wasn't it you
personally who pulled the STASI comparison when talking about something innocent like forum moderation?
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:01 pm
by [nis]
*yawn*
Timur, let's close the Internet for today. Sounds good?
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:14 pm
by nebulae
^ oh snap! hahahahahaha that explains everything! LOL
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:22 pm
by Tone Deft
best pwn ever?
feel for ya Timur...
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:28 pm
by NorthernMonkey
Is this still going?
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:40 pm
by Tone Deft
NorthernMonkey wrote: Is this still going?
is what still going on?
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:46 pm
by NorthernMonkey
Tone Deft wrote:NorthernMonkey wrote: Is this still going?
is what still going on?
This. Thread. Discussion. Argument. Insults. People going to bed in a bad mood over an anonymous insult.
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:55 pm
by Tone Deft
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:03 am
by NorthernMonkey
Tone Deft wrote:
So true.
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:24 am
by forge
Punky921 wrote:Robert Henke wrote:We do not believe that enforcing things will help a lot. It just raises a lot of questions:
what is racist? where does an offense start? when is a comment off topic? etc... A healthy community is by far better in handling those questions then we could ever be.
We only remove spam, and we sometimes write PMs to people.
The fact that we are discussing this here is actually already an achievement. Sometimes people get a bit lost behind their screens, and a gentle reminder is a better tool to get things back to a more moderate level then anything else.
Robert
Robert,
I really think you're kind of deluded, to be honest. I post on several other boards, some related to electronic music, and some not, and this is the only unmoderated one I post on with any frequency. And this board definitely has the worst signal to noise ratio of sheer stupidity.
Good mods know the difference between racism and not racism (frankly, it shouldn't ever come up, as it's not relevant to what we're SUPPOSED to be discussing here). They also know the difference between on and off topic. And I'll trust a few good mods over the cowboy bullshit that is the unmoderated internet any day.
I do not believe that this community is healthy. I believe it's juvenile and foolish, and I think a little bit of moderation would go a LONG way to improving everyone's experience here. If anything, in the last several months of watching this forum, I've seen it do nothing but get worse and worse and worse.
actaully I agree with a lot of the points you make, and I like the idea of people actually staking their professional identity on their logins so that they choose words a little more carefully (so maybe logins linked to registration might be an idea then after all) but you really should try that troll blocker, it works a treat - when you block the main offenders it becomes clear it's really not that bad, just one or two dickheads
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:35 am
by Robert Henke
nebulae wrote:^ dude, you just pulled a Palin...stick to the party line and quit goin' off script! Geez, you can't count on anyone anymore!
LOL. Well, i did not say that I would delete all and everything, but i would certainly delete
more stuff. But hey, we ( read: Ableton ) are willing to learn from our customers. It is not that we are not talking about forum politics and how to proceed here, it is just that we have different opinions and need to come to a conclusion regarding future strategies here! ( Did this sound like politician speak ??! )
Cheers, Robert
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:01 am
by Machinesworking
Robert Henke wrote:nebulae wrote:^ dude, you just pulled a Palin...stick to the party line and quit goin' off script! Geez, you can't count on anyone anymore!
LOL. Well, i did not say that I would delete all and everything, but i would certainly delete
more stuff. But hey, we ( read: Ableton ) are willing to learn from our customers. It is not that we are not talking about forum politics and how to proceed here, it is just that we have different opinions and need to come to a conclusion regarding future strategies here! ( Did this sound like politician speak ??! )
Cheers, Robert
How about you delete almost nothing, but come up with some way to make sure that it's not dead easy to have multiple log in identities? From what I can tell the latest rash of bad behavior folks are almost certainly aliases.
When I first started posting here I was shanghaied by some stalker type who had an agenda against Adam Jay and Hoffman for a day or two until I figured out that it was the stalker who had issues, not Hoffman and AJ.
Aliases IMO are the only real problem with this forum, beyond that I give Ableton HUGE amounts of credit for having real balls about ideas that even supposed counter culture types can't seem to handle, like actual freedom of speech.