Democracy still works. Bill a no go

[deva]

How the crooked bailout was passed by Congress
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/441.html

deva, before you finally lose the fucking plot, could you at least offer some suggestions, other than your usual negative comments and random internet links, on what you think would improve the situation?

I've posted a number of links of sensible ideas from respected individuals of what can be done.

I don't think much can be done to improve the situation in the sense that it is going to get better right away. What is happening is the result of actions over some time and is now inevitable. What we can do is recognize this and do what we can.

The first thing I would do is cancel the bailout bill and use that money to help homeowners from being foreclosed. Most people feel like the bailout bill will not help them (and they are right) and they feel like they are on their own and they are panicking. That action would let people know that the government is actually doing something to assist them and they will not feel the pressure of being homeless soon.

Second, re-regulate the financial industry to stop the practices that brought this about. (See Glass-Steagall Act as one example)

Third, do something to shore up the banks. I read someone suggesting insuring all deposits without limit as a way to stop the slow motion bank run that is happening. Also another suggestion to buy some stake in the institution on behalf of taxpayers. A kind of partial and temporary nationalization that would return something to the taxpayer. That also seems much more responsible to taxpayers money that just giving it away to wall street.

okay, now that I answered that question from the standpoint of the current system, what I really think should happen is a radical reshaping of US society.

Immediately cease both wars, bring the troops home.

Close most US military bases around the world and bring the people home.

Cut the defense budget by 90%

Immediately enact Single-payer universal health care

Okay, that is enough for the first day!

[Moody]

20% of your cash in gold

20% under your mattress

20% in the bank

10% buy stocks with a future like LDK

10% save for buying more undervalued stock within the next 6 months

20% spend it now on physical assets such as guitars, car, guns, food, etc

Have as little debt as possible. Stay light and mobile..

The government seizes all tangible gold assets during an actual crisis. Check your history books.

Heh, good luck with that...

From wikiAnswers:

Most estimates range between 39% and 50% of US households having at least one gun(thats about 43-55 million households). The estimates for the number of privately owned guns range from 190 million to 300 million. Removed those that skew the stats for thier own purposes the best estimates are about 45% or 52 million of american households owning 260 million guns).

http://www.lewrockwell.com/anderson/anderson154.html

Trust me, I am a gun loving American myself but, to be so naive to believe that any militia could go against a modern military is quite absurd. Even if one where to retain there actual gold assets where would one spend it to obtain goods? Any business doing so would be subject to punishment as well. Black markets would be the only options and that in itself during a time of chaos would be extremely dangerous. Just trying to be realistic but, going out like Scarface does have a romantic appeal to some degree.

[deva]

20% of your cash in gold

20% under your mattress

20% in the bank

10% buy stocks with a future like LDK

10% save for buying more undervalued stock within the next 6 months

20% spend it now on physical assets such as guitars, car, guns, food, etc

Have as little debt as possible. Stay light and mobile..

50% under your mattress
50% in physical assets (which includes gold)

No way I would leave 20% in the bank

[deva]

The government seizes all tangible gold assets during an actual crisis. Check your history books.

Heh, good luck with that...

From wikiAnswers:

Most estimates range between 39% and 50% of US households having at least one gun(thats about 43-55 million households). The estimates for the number of privately owned guns range from 190 million to 300 million. Removed those that skew the stats for thier own purposes the best estimates are about 45% or 52 million of american households owning 260 million guns).

http://www.lewrockwell.com/anderson/anderson154.html

Trust me, I am a gun loving American myself but, to be so naive to believe that any militia could go against a modern military is quite absurd. Even if one where to retain there actual gold assets where would one spend it to obtain goods? Any business doing so would be subject to punishment as well. Black markets would be the only options and that in itself during a time of chaos would be extremely dangerous. Just trying to be realistic but, going out like Scarface does have a romantic appeal to some degree.

the black market would BE the market at that point... and most essentially dealings will be 'under the table'

[Moody]

20% of your cash in gold

20% under your mattress

20% in the bank

10% buy stocks with a future like LDK

10% save for buying more undervalued stock within the next 6 months

20% spend it now on physical assets such as guitars, car, guns, food, etc

Have as little debt as possible. Stay light and mobile..

50% under your mattress
50% in physical assets (which includes gold)

No way I would leave 20% in the bank

I am guessing this should be taken light heartedly? Any reserve note in a collapsed system would only be good for starting fires and wiping your ass and, again tangible gold assets would be seized. The only people who escape the system our those who own the system. Of course this is an opinion but, I have based that opinion on recent documented history.

[Moody]

Heh, good luck with that...

From wikiAnswers:

Most estimates range between 39% and 50% of US households having at least one gun(thats about 43-55 million households). The estimates for the number of privately owned guns range from 190 million to 300 million. Removed those that skew the stats for thier own purposes the best estimates are about 45% or 52 million of american households owning 260 million guns).

http://www.lewrockwell.com/anderson/anderson154.html

Trust me, I am a gun loving American myself but, to be so naive to believe that any militia could go against a modern military is quite absurd. Even if one where to retain there actual gold assets where would one spend it to obtain goods? Any business doing so would be subject to punishment as well. Black markets would be the only options and that in itself during a time of chaos would be extremely dangerous. Just trying to be realistic but, going out like Scarface does have a romantic appeal to some degree.

the black market would BE the market at that point... and most essentially dealings will be 'under the table'

Indeed, though amunition would proabbaly be a better commodity at that point.

[Grifter]

deva, before you finally lose the fucking plot, could you at least offer some suggestions, other than your usual negative comments and random internet links, on what you think would improve the situation?

I've posted a number of links of sensible ideas from respected individuals of what can be done.

I don't think much can be done to improve the situation in the sense that it is going to get better right away. What is happening is the result of actions over some time and is now inevitable. What we can do is recognize this and do what we can.

The first thing I would do is cancel the bailout bill and use that money to help homeowners from being foreclosed. Most people feel like the bailout bill will not help them (and they are right) and they feel like they are on their own and they are panicking. That action would let people know that the government is actually doing something to assist them and they will not feel the pressure of being homeless soon.

Second, re-regulate the financial industry to stop the practices that brought this about. (See Glass-Steagall Act as one example)

Third, do something to shore up the banks. I read someone suggesting insuring all deposits without limit as a way to stop the slow motion bank run that is happening. Also another suggestion to buy some stake in the institution on behalf of taxpayers. A kind of partial and temporary nationalization that would return something to the taxpayer. That also seems much more responsible to taxpayers money that just giving it away to wall street.

okay, now that I answered that question from the standpoint of the current system, what I really think should happen is a radical reshaping of US society.

Immediately cease both wars, bring the troops home.

Close most US military bases around the world and bring the people home.

Cut the defense budget by 90%

Immediately enact Single-payer universal health care

Okay, that is enough for the first day!

Fruited monkey is more happy seeing his fractional reserve increase than his intelligence.

[OvertoneZero]

I am guessing this should be taken light heartedly? Any reserve note in a collapsed system would only be good for starting fires and wiping your ass and, again tangible gold assets would be seized. The only people who escape the system our those who own the system. Of course this is an opinion but, I have based that opinion on recent documented history.

Well I should qualify it by saying I've only got $20k net worth and that's my basic plan.. need cash to pay bills and whatnot for the next few months.. possible my bank assets could be seized so I want to have some cash if e-pay stops working, possible near-term deflation that's why I want some cash and some gold.. Assets yeah better to buy the stuff you need or think you want since the risk is much higher than normal that your buying power might get thrashed near-term.

If I had $500k I really don't know what I would do, maybe buy a farmhouse with some land and a nice, big, basement that works as a music studio / lounge / zombie shelter.

[Tone Deft]

wait a sec? you're tripping out over some financial election year bullshit and you don't have a zombie shelter?

zomfg

[ethios4]

Gold is high right now relative to where it was a few years ago, but lower than it was 6 months ago. I'd expect the price to be going up substantially over the next few months, but I could be wrong. The idea of having gold in my house fraks me out, but not as much as having it sitting somewhere. The government has seized gold before (compensated at the price they set), but supposedly you can get around that by having coins of artistic merit, where the majority of its value is in its collectibility, rather than just its worth as gold. At that time, though, a lot more people owned gold and the purpose was getting our economy of any kind of gold standard. Since that has already been accomplished, I'm not sure they would go so far as to seize gold again.

Having a bunch of cash sitting around (or under the mattress) is probably one of the worst ideas. Besides having to protect it from thieves, it will be losing value quickly.

I'm wondering if buying land or a house is a good idea. Something that will have value (to me) regardless of what happens.

[ethios4]

I should also mention that where I live, the economy hasn't really been hit much yet. Home prices are still stable, and job losses are not much more right now. It is a petroleum state, so as long as that doesn't change we're relatively safe here.

[OvertoneZero]

Yes go for land if you can swing it. I would probably buy somewhere in the Pac NW with good climate, not very cold winters, plenty of space and water.

I don't think physical gold could really get seized in the US because there would basically be a revolution and I don't believe the US military would kill millions of our own people.. in fact part of the military would probably outright refuse to go with the program and take up arms in opposition.

Also I agree certainly it does not make sense to stash more than $10k to $20k in cash.

[ethios4]

Physical gold has already been seized in the past in the US, in 1933, as part of the New Deal. That's how it works...."This is for the good of all...we can't have domestic monetary terrorists blackmailing our nation for their own selfish interest!"

[OvertoneZero]

Ok well I'm going to leave the gold topic alone then but here's a question.. I was thinking no debt so no obligations but maybe it would be better to rack up as large a debt as possible now, like zero APR credit card offers, low cost student loans, etc

[ethios4]

I guess it depends on what you can afford to lose. If you build up a huge debt, then file bankruptcy, they can seize assets to pay off the debt. In my state, at least, they cannot seize your house in that situation, unless it's a mortgage. Can banks call in loans, where they say "you have to pay this right now!"? If you have a huge debt, and the economy gets really bad, can the bank make a "run" on their customers demanding immediate payment for debts?