Climate Change & Einstein's - You cannot solve a problem ...

[Forge.]

....

[Forge.]

as for the socialism thing. I think it's a mistake to think in terms of any kind of "ism". Too many distractions.

To me it all comes down to ethical responsibility and making sure that everybody adheres to it so that nobody gets fucked over purely for the sake of another person's profit.

Whatever form of "capitalism" a lot of countries in the world have is really not that bad actually. Where the problem is comes down to lack of accountability and how easy it is for the method of enforcing it (i.e. system of government) to be corrupted and become like a private method of coersion for a wealthy few.

But countries like Australia, many scandanavian and european countries, and even to some extent the UK prior to the tory assault on welfare and Blair's neo-colonial war mongering actually do a lot of things well. Our healthcare and education and other social services are examples of how you intelligently run a civilized society.

When it goes wrong is with things like corporations being used as a way of removing responsibility. If the directors of corporations were actually accountable for their actions and could be prosecuted for doing anything that harms another in exactly the same way as an individual is then it would make a big difference to how they acted.

Likewise, companies (and people like David Cameron) should not be able to swindle their country by avoiding taxes and then try and accuse the poorest people of being the problem. It's no small Irony that the tories who are going on about the "something for nothing culture" inherited most of their wealth and privilege.

And the other thing is if companies are going to be allowed to be "globalized" then these responsibilites should be global. If the UN was actually respected by all countries then a lot of the nasty shit in the world would go away.

How do we achieve all this? well, fucked if I know. The UN was created in the first place because of WW2 as a way of trying to stop wars like that from happening again. Obviously we don't want WW3 to have to happen. And as it didn't work last time then it's unlikely it would again. Although a good start would be getting rid of the permanent members and making it a truly equal global thing.

Anyway, my point is - no "ism" is going to save the world. We just need to figure out how to hold people accountable regardless of how much money they have.

I kind of like the idea of Bitcoin actually. It ties in with that idea of "instead of fixing the government, make it irrelevant"

[andydes]

The crash happened at a time when working class consciousness was not sufficient to take advantage of the situation. I think the crash has shifted people's thinking a bit, but it's still way behind events. The masses' political consciousness is generally too low to get much done.

Actually, the more I think about this, the less I buy it.

The UK before Thatcher was even more nationalised than I think it needed to be. And there was plenty of public support for it being that way. Not everyone of course, but a hell of a lot.

When labour lurched suddenly to the center, people noticed straight away. It wasn't all that subtle. They left a gaping hole in UK politics, that still hasn't been filled. It must be worth at least 20% of the vote.

A new party should have been able to get at least a couple of seats before everything went tits up. Enough to get noticed, get their views across and offer some kind of plan.

I'm used to being pissed off with right wingers, but I just had a surge of anger towards the politically minded left.

Where the fuck are they? They'd get my vote if they gave me someone to vote for. I wouldn't need much convincing.

Are they too busy protesting to get their arses in the game?
Too full of righteous anger to be remotely votable?
Too uncompromising to actually get anything done?

Stop fucking around and get your act together.

[myrnova]

once again, and before I'll be banned because posting artistic pictures (in italy such pictures are called "artistic" and exposed in museums, here the american strintrupper patriot and the loostation one call them "pornogore staff" and "anti-USA" something ("U.S.A." the land of "free speech" ) Ok, different culture, different concept of "freedom", I guess: here the shocking pictures are the ones with little american kids 5-6 y.o. playing with guns, but ok... I understand the culture shock, american puritanism, the "god bless america" flag and all that idiot crap sinthesized in that "fat and brainwashed" Forge's funny slogan ).

So, ONCE AGAIN: i like american people. I am sincere. I mean: humble american people, the real ones (i guess). I love american culture, literature, music, cinema etc. too (of course "leftish" and "underground", not "captain america", "rambo" and all the war propaganda crap).

Said that i know for sure I'll be banned for "trolling" (which is isn't at all, of course, but keeps up appearances). That is an old good excuse and just proves that I am right and what I claim is true: (most of) american people (all of them here) cannot even realize there is a deep difference between "NATION" and "PEOPLE". This is due to propaganda brainstorming, which, i guess, the U.S. government learnt well from the nazi refugee in USA together with space-missile technology (Von Braun etc.). In the other nations it does not work like this. Never heard of a german guy accusing me of "hating german people" because I criticize Hitler, Merkel and the current german neonazi party. The same for Turkey, UK, Spain, Greece, whatever. I am sorry for american people, because U.S.A. is becoming far more dangerous than the nazis, and they don't even realize. They still believe their soldiers are "heroes" and the 11/9 was a "huge tragedy"

[knotkranky]

Ya see right there, mrynova's in here trolling to "get banned" as a form of success.

....and some of you are looking for nuance.

c'mon

[stringtapper]

the american strintrupper patriot

Find one quote where I have said anything patriotic on this forum.

Show the world the world some proof to back up your assumptions.

[myrnova]

By the way:

(1) i am not at all "out of topic" or "trolling" as the american angry guys try to demonstrate. Infact, alas, the U.S.A. alone is responsable for 38% of total current global pollution. Besides, they have always refused to "fill in" Kyoto Protocol. Now, if you consider "normal" that 184 nations are (at least) trying to reduce pollution, and ONLY ONE says "NO", keeping on spreading shit and poison among the planet, the sea, the air and the soil... Official reason: "we are the masters of the planet Earth, we want to decide ourself, we don't need collaboration, we need oil". This is more than "nazi", in my opinion. This is criminal. Three days ago mr. "Peace Price" (honoured together with the other nazicriminal called Kissinger) claimed "we have a plan to save planet earth". In 2013... "They" (the "masters of the universe") have a "plan"... Hey, they woke up last monday and smelled the CO2. WOW! Shall we laugh? cry? What?... Let alone all the nuclear waste, oil, uranium they spread...

(2) Regarding that unique and strange way of behaviour american people have (they are very touchy about their "nation" and tend to be very aggressive to whoever "dare" to criticize their governments' crimes), i have a theory: maybe this sort of psuedonazi "nationalism" among american population that everyone outside U.S.A. can notice is due to the fact the U.S.A. never wanted to end WW2. Just think about it: while Europe, Japan etc. have no war since 1946, the U.S.A. are still making war since then. Consequently the population feels like italians, english, japanese etc. during the war: "patrioctic" above all. May this theory be valid? For example, I remember when the president Obama claimed "we killed Osama Bin Laden" (a sort of comedy, as usually... but ok...): On TV we could watch all those american fellows cheering, laughing and waving flags... As if they won football championship or smth. Is that normal?! For me not, it is just a consequence of Gov brainwashing (infact even FAT people were dancing! ). Last time something like that happend in Italuy was in 1946...

[andydes]

The Socialist Party have had MPs and they wear a suit and tie. You can't tell them from other MPs. Joe Higgins has been one for 16 years, with a short stint as a Euro MP. The main problem on the left is the other left groups. Too often they split the movement rather than try to unite it.

Ok, they might be a little more relevant than I gave them credit for.

But the fact I didn't know they had anyone in parliament at all shows they're not doing such a great job of getting the message across.

I had to look Joe Higgins up, whereas Nick Griffin is a household name. What does that say? Maybe that I'm ignorant? But then so is everyone else. It's up to them to reach me, not me to search for them.

As for your "proof" that only complete socialism will work. I wouldn't bother. As you say, the problem is left wing groups splitting the vote. Could this be due to lack of ability to compromise and work together. How do you unite people if your way is the only way? Are you saying everyone else should shut up so your prefered option stands a better chance?

[LoopStationZebra]

while Europe, Japan etc. have no war since 1946,

THAT'S BECAUSE WE'VE HAD OUR BOOT WHERE IT BELONGS - AT YOUR FUCKING THROATS.


If we didn't, you mongs would be getting up to all sorts of No Good. The kind of no good, incidentally, that would make OUR No Good seem like a day at Disneyland.


There's been 50 years where Europeans haven't been committing WHOLESALE SLAUGHTER around the world. The first time in history, actually. It's because we've been your MASTER. You want to pretend that it's because you gained enlightenment or some such bullshit, but we know better don't we? Oh yes, we do.


All your fucking high and mighty righteous bullshit and criticism of America. It would almost be funny if it weren't coming from someone who's ancestors singlehandedly destroyed entire populations as a matter of course; when they were raping and pillaging of course.


omfg.

[myrnova]

Seems you are coming in your pants when you talk about war
I don't think you "saved the world", actually. It was CCCP, as far as I know. You just started the WW2 with the '29 financial crisis. Ok, your propaganda machine tells you "hey, we are the heroes of freedom and democracy, we went to europe and saved people from Nazi", but it is not really true. Infact you have always had commercial trades with both Hitler and Mussolini at the time, and did not give a damn about jews genocide (you commited a far more huge genocide with american natives and slaves). Infact nowadays you are much more similar to Hitler's germany in terms of crimes against humanity. I am not claiming England, Italy, Japan etc. are better or something. I just think you have a distorted perception of history. I remember the russian red army for defeating the nazis, and the UK. U.S.A. colonized Europe, though. That's for sure. Italy was practically destroyed by your bombs. Regarding your "democracy", you have always supported neofascist dictatorships, see Spain, Portugal, Greece, Chile, Argentina etc.

[andydes]

while Europe, Japan etc. have no war since 1946,

I seem to remember Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia getting very ugly. Proper genocide and everything.

America definitely can't be blamed for that one. In fact, it's a rare example of NATO going in and stopping the killing.

Now it's all fine over there, and I'd highly recommend visiting. Croatia is beautiful. The older generation is still emotionally scarred, but the younger ones aren't at all hateful about the shit their neighbors did.

Success.

Everyone knows the US does bad shit, but it's important to remember, they don't do all the bad shit.

[myrnova]

while Europe, Japan etc. have no war since 1946,

I seem to remember Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia getting very ugly. Proper genocide and everything.

America definitely can't be blamed for that one. In fact, it's a rare example of NATO going in and stopping the killing.

Now it's all fine over there, and I'd highly recommend visiting. Croatia is beautiful. The older generation is still emotionally scarred, but the younger ones aren't at all hateful about the shit their neighbors did.

Success.

Everyone knows the US does bad shit, but it's important to remember, they don't do all the bad shit.

You are WRONG. Deeply WRONG. U.S.A. commited CRIMES there. Crimes against humanity.

[LoopStationZebra]

omfg.




You're quite simply POISON on this forum.

[LoopStationZebra]

Seems you are coming in your pants when you talk about war
I don't think you "saved the world", actually. It was CCCP, as far as I know. You just started the WW2 with the '29 financial crisis. Ok, your propaganda machine tells you "hey, we are the heroes of freedom and democracy, we went to europe and saved people from Nazi", but it is not really true. Infact you have always had commercial trades with both Hitler and Mussolini at the time, and did not give a damn about jews genocide (you commited a far more huge genocide with american natives and slaves). Infact nowadays you are much more similar to Hitler's germany in terms of crimes against humanity. I am not claiming England, Italy, Japan etc. are better or something. I just think you have a distorted perception of history. I remember the russian red army for defeating the nazis, and the UK. U.S.A. colonized Europe, though. That's for sure. Italy was practically destroyed by your bombs. Regarding your "democracy", you have always supported neofascist dictatorships, see Spain, Portugal, Greece, Chile, Argentina etc.

Wow, never was a point missed so widely. NEVER.

[myrnova]

Seems you are coming in your pants when you talk about war
I don't think you "saved the world", actually. It was CCCP, as far as I know. You just started the WW2 with the '29 financial crisis. Ok, your propaganda machine tells you "hey, we are the heroes of freedom and democracy, we went to europe and saved people from Nazi", but it is not really true. Infact you have always had commercial trades with both Hitler and Mussolini at the time, and did not give a damn about jews genocide (you commited a far more huge genocide with american natives and slaves). Infact nowadays you are much more similar to Hitler's germany in terms of crimes against humanity. I am not claiming England, Italy, Japan etc. are better or something. I just think you have a distorted perception of history. I remember the russian red army for defeating the nazis, and the UK. U.S.A. colonized Europe, though. That's for sure. Italy was practically destroyed by your bombs. Regarding your "democracy", you have always supported neofascist dictatorships, see Spain, Portugal, Greece, Chile, Argentina etc.

Wow, never was a point missed so widely. NEVER.

Well, I don't expect Hitler or Mussolini themselves denying they would have saved the planet in they were alive and keeping on their shitty regime. Just keep on with your fat and "brainwashed" illusion, then: if you are SURE the U.S.A. "saved the planet" ok. After all, even Mr. Obama three days ago claimed "we have a plan to save the planet". Strange logic: at first they almost destroy it, then, ignoring 184 countries for more than 15 years, tecide at once they will "save it"