Ableton Forum

Machinesworking wrote:

Tone Deft wrote: MW - Olga's not worth your time. seriously.

Point took, and I'm swamped with work lately.

The passage.... (I really really have to start marking this stuff when I find it), basically has Jesus telling his followers to kill unbelievers, it's pretty straight forward and not up to interpretation. Explains why europeans could do all that inquisition party time fun, and be OK with it. If I find it again in my little free time I'll post it here.

Oh brother. I'm an atheist and even I know thats a load of crap taken out of context. And I find it so funny that you guys pretend to be so open minded & understanding about debate and yet you bash me in with 'not worth time' not because my points are not worth debate, but because its not what you want to hear. What a joke. 'Read More!' etc yet your all throwing around out of text unfounded statements yourselves. Meanwhile not even responding to the Warlord murdering psychopath muhammad statements I've made. Or the uber eye opening video which i will now post again.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=0


Exactly how good do your farts have to smell to be a member of this forum?

Olga wrote:

Machinesworking wrote:

Tone Deft wrote: MW - Olga's not worth your time. seriously.

Point took, and I'm swamped with work lately.

The passage.... (I really really have to start marking this stuff when I find it), basically has Jesus telling his followers to kill unbelievers, it's pretty straight forward and not up to interpretation. Explains why europeans could do all that inquisition party time fun, and be OK with it. If I find it again in my little free time I'll post it here.

Oh brother. I'm an atheist and even I know thats a load of crap taken out of context.

This sort of debate tactic, along with calling me a "bitch" in your first post directed at me pretty much sums up why you aren't worth debating with. You're not interested in conversation, it's all sensationalist posing. I'm off to work on music, I suggest you become an accountant or some other hobby more suited to binary thinking.

Machinesworking wrote:

Olga wrote:

Machinesworking wrote: Point took, and I'm swamped with work lately.

The passage.... (I really really have to start marking this stuff when I find it), basically has Jesus telling his followers to kill unbelievers, it's pretty straight forward and not up to interpretation. Explains why europeans could do all that inquisition party time fun, and be OK with it. If I find it again in my little free time I'll post it here.

Oh brother. I'm an atheist and even I know thats a load of crap taken out of context.

This sort of debate tactic, along with calling me a "bitch" in your first post directed at me pretty much sums up why you aren't worth debating with. You're not interested in conversation, it's all sensationalist posing. I'm off to work on music, I suggest you become an accountant or some other hobby more suited to binary thinking.

Yes, I called you a bitch in response to your saying to me (unprovoked) [/quote]
Wow? You're not very bright are you? [/quote]

I happen to have my masters degree. Do you have one of those oh all intelligent demigod? Get over yourself.

Olga wrote:

Machinesworking wrote:

Olga wrote:
Oh brother. I'm an atheist and even I know thats a load of crap taken out of context.

This sort of debate tactic, along with calling me a "bitch" in your first post directed at me pretty much sums up why you aren't worth debating with. You're not interested in conversation, it's all sensationalist posing. I'm off to work on music, I suggest you become an accountant or some other hobby more suited to binary thinking.

Yes, I called you a bitch in response to your saying to me (unprovoked)

Wow? You're not very bright are you? [/quote]

I happen to have my masters degree. Do you have one of those oh all intelligent demigod? Get over yourself.[/quote]




Doesn't prevent the world from being populated with a wealth of well educated idiots none the less now does it ?

Oscar F wrote: Doesn't prevent the world from being populated with a wealth of well educated idiots none the less now does it ?

Hmm

Didn't Pol Pot have a cure for that?

If this thread has done one thing, it's proved that the majority of musicians are far left pacifists looking to dehumanize anyone who doesn't believe their views.

M. Bréqs, since you seem to truly believe that the war you are fighting is worth the cost, tell me, define victory and how and when can it be achieved.

That is the simplest question asked of the US government and they have to find an answer in over 5 years of bloodshed in Iraq. One would think that it would be easy to answer when our soldiers are being killed for it. I know the Iraq and Afghani wars are different and separate wars. But, any war requires goals.

Again, simple question:

- what is the goal of this war and how and when can this goal be achieved?

not all musicians are dorks who spend too much time on the internet.

then there's this crazy redneck rocker fuck

(for all you kids, that's Ted Nugent.)

Tone Deft wrote:not all musicians are dorks who spend too much time on the internet.

then there's this crazy redneck rocker fuck

(for all you kids, that's Ted Nugent.)

God, Guns and Rockn' Roll!

I personally prefer the Sex, Drugs and Rockn' Roll versions.

Olga wrote:

Machinesworking wrote:

Olga wrote:
Oh brother. I'm an atheist and even I know thats a load of crap taken out of context.

This sort of debate tactic, along with calling me a "bitch" in your first post directed at me pretty much sums up why you aren't worth debating with. You're not interested in conversation, it's all sensationalist posing. I'm off to work on music, I suggest you become an accountant or some other hobby more suited to binary thinking.

Yes, I called you a bitch in response to your saying to me (unprovoked)

Wow? You're not very bright are you?

I happen to have my masters degree. Do you have one of those oh all intelligent demigod? Get over yourself.

Look, you call yourself an atheist, but if you are, then all i can attribute your seeming tolerance of western christianity VS total intolerance of islam to is regional national pride, which I don't think is a very intelligent position. You posted a ration of adjectives attributing all problems the west has with the middle east down to islam. You posted videos with recently converted muslims who are now christian talking smack about their former religion....... atheist you say?

Here's some fun stuff.
http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm

this is the passage that bothered me.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3JQj31V4I ... re=related

There are plenty more. All religions carry a convert or die/rot in hell attitude at some point in their doctrine, and fundamentalism of all kinds is ugly. It's very obvious to me that fundamentalism grew recently (last 80 odd years) when our concerns for middle eastern sweet crude oil convinced the west that direct manipulation of middle eastern politics was necessary. I find it almost funny that people try to deny this, it's sad really. There is a history of cooperation between muslim and christian nations, but people tend to overlook that when they want to portray muslims as intolerant psychos, hundreds of years of relatively peaceful trade, but hey, they are nut job psychos with no tolerance etc...


Lastly, I'm an atheist through and through, I wasn't raised by christians, or really religious people of any kind. I have little or no hatred towards religion. When you look at history with characters like Stalin wasting millions as cruelly as religious governments did, you realize that religion isn't the problem, it's people.
Again, I think it's important in every case with every situation where people are driven to acts of violence with seemingly dismal odds against them, it's important to ask yourself why, and as an atheist I find it almost shocking that you and others who claim that title run right to religion as the problem. Religion is always the cover up to the the issue.

Q: How do you get Afghani people to throw grenades at Tanks? It's almost certain death?
A: Fundamentalism

Q: How do you get christians to go to war?
A: Paint the enemy out to be cultish psychos.

Anyway I feel this is all falling on deaf ears, and it's why I opted to work on material. No matter how educated you say you are, you've decided to hate on middle eastern people who are muslim, and in doing so will ignore willingly the simple fact that no matter if they showed a thousand videos of beheadings it wouldn't add up to the piles of Iraqi civilian dead bodies killed by our military. Somehow that simple fact fails to carry any weight when the military in question is on 'your side', I'll never understand that.

The ability to look at a situation from outside your own perspective. I would give anything to see people achieve this on a global level, but people want an enemy, a black and white situation. Movie that everybody should watch IMO is The Control Room. There are a few scenes in there where muslim, and middle eastern journalists talk about the Iraq situation that sum it up to IMO.

Back to music....>

Machinesworking wrote:

Olga wrote:

Machinesworking wrote: This sort of debate tactic, along with calling me a "bitch" in your first post directed at me pretty much sums up why you aren't worth debating with. You're not interested in conversation, it's all sensationalist posing. I'm off to work on music, I suggest you become an accountant or some other hobby more suited to binary thinking.

Yes, I called you a bitch in response to your saying to me (unprovoked)

Wow? You're not very bright are you?

I happen to have my masters degree. Do you have one of those oh all intelligent demigod? Get over yourself.

Look, you call yourself an atheist, but if you are, then all i can attribute your seeming tolerance of western christianity VS total intolerance of islam to is regional national pride, which I don't think is a very intelligent position. You posted a ration of adjectives attributing all problems the west has with the middle east down to islam. You posted videos with recently converted muslims who are now christian talking smack about their former religion....... atheist you say?

Here's some fun stuff.
http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm

this is the passage that bothered me.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3JQj31V4I ... re=related

There are plenty more. All religions carry a convert or die/rot in hell attitude at some point in their doctrine, and fundamentalism of all kinds is ugly. It's very obvious to me that fundamentalism grew recently (last 80 odd years) when our concerns for middle eastern sweet crude oil convinced the west that direct manipulation of middle eastern politics was necessary. I find it almost funny that people try to deny this, it's sad really. There is a history of cooperation between muslim and christian nations, but people tend to overlook that when they want to portray muslims as intolerant psychos, hundreds of years of relatively peaceful trade, but hey, they are nut job psychos with no tolerance etc...


Lastly, I'm an atheist through and through, I wasn't raised by christians, or really religious people of any kind. I have little or no hatred towards religion. When you look at history with characters like Stalin wasting millions as cruelly as religious governments did, you realize that religion isn't the problem, it's people.
Again, I think it's important in every case with every situation where people are driven to acts of violence with seemingly dismal odds against them, it's important to ask yourself why, and as an atheist I find it almost shocking that you and others who claim that title run right to religion as the problem. Religion is always the cover up to the the issue.

Q: How do you get Afghani people to throw grenades at Tanks? It's almost certain death?
A: Fundamentalism

Q: How do you get christians to go to war?
A: Paint the enemy out to be cultish psychos.

Anyway I feel this is all falling on deaf ears, and it's why I opted to work on material. No matter how educated you say you are, you've decided to hate on middle eastern people who are muslim, and in doing so will ignore willingly the simple fact that no matter if they showed a thousand videos of beheadings it wouldn't add up to the piles of Iraqi civilian dead bodies killed by our military. Somehow that simple fact fails to carry any weight when the military in question is on 'your side', I'll never understand that.

The ability to look at a situation from outside your own perspective. I would give anything to see people achieve this on a global level, but people want an enemy, a black and white situation. Movie that everybody should watch IMO is The Control Room. There are a few scenes in there where muslim, and middle eastern journalists talk about the Iraq situation that sum it up to IMO.

Back to music....>

I'm going to have to agree with most of your statements though imo I did not brazenly "hate on middle eastern people who are muslim" as you put it. I merely pointed out that in my opinion, the Muslim religion is not one of peace, and that its a historical undisputed fact that Muhammad was a brutal murderer and a warlord that preached intolerance. No other religion on earth looks to a man that physically cut off the heads of 700 jewish men himself as their spiritual leader. I'll end that there.

You really nailed it when you pointed out the obvious that it really comes down to people and with that I agree. From atheists like Stalin and Pol Pot killing millions of their own people to the religious wars, it all comes down to our own human nature to destroy ourselves and our inability to apparently learn from our own mistakes as a whole.

Unfortunately, I believe the fundamentalist terrorists are going to win this so called war on a global scale eventually. I believe this for two reasons. One, the ferocity of which they are willing to die for their cause and two (and more importantly) the simple child like law of nature that it is easier to destroy a thing than it is to create it. The twin towers for example, 4-5 years each to build, and one day to destroy them both.

No hard feelings. If there are any typos in my post blame the wine its friday.

Take it easy.

Olga wrote:No other religion on earth looks to a man that physically cut off the heads of 700 jewish men himself as their spiritual leader. I'll end that there.

the Hindus have warrior gods....... and if you checked the links, the old and even new testament is filled with passages advocating violence towards unbelievers.

The war on terror is a joke. The real threat to US security comes from within. My thoughts about 911; It's an inevitable consequence of our manifest destiny in the middle east.

Basically we reap what we sow, and if we want to change it we have to change it from the inside. We have to change out foreign policy to match our rhetoric. What religious wing nuts have over us as a country is brutal honesty, they will die for what they believe in. If there's anything that you can admire about the Taliban it's that they knew they were going to be destroyed when they didn't hand over Bin Ladin, and they stood by their moral code. We don't do that, we side with whomever it's most convenient with at the time, regardless of the social policies of that country. Iraq, Suadi Arabia, Israel, all have human rights issues, yet we side with them, and in the case of Iraq, turn around and war with them.
Point is, there is a HUGE difference in US domestic policy, and our foreign policy; this makes us look like hypocrites to the middle east, and that plays right into the hands of the terrorists.

Religion is really only the tool that terrorists and war mongers use to bind a people, it's not the reason for the conflict, it's a method used to get young impressionable minds to go into battle.

Machinesworking wrote:

Olga wrote:No other religion on earth looks to a man that physically cut off the heads of 700 jewish men himself as their spiritual leader. I'll end that there.

the Hindus have warrior gods....... and if you checked the links, the old and even new testament is filled with passages advocating violence towards unbelievers.

The war on terror is a joke. The real threat to US security comes from within. My thoughts about 911; It's an inevitable consequence of our manifest destiny in the middle east.

Basically we reap what we sow, and if we want to change it we have to change it from the inside. We have to change out foreign policy to match our rhetoric. What religious wing nuts have over us as a country is brutal honesty, they will die for what they believe in. If there's anything that you can admire about the Taliban it's that they knew they were going to be destroyed when they didn't hand over Bin Ladin, and they stood by their moral code. We don't do that, we side with whomever it's most convenient with at the time, regardless of the social policies of that country. Iraq, Suadi Arabia, Israel, all have human rights issues, yet we side with them, and in the case of Iraq, turn around and war with them.
Point is, there is a HUGE difference in US domestic policy, and our foreign policy; this makes us look like hypocrites to the middle east, and that plays right into the hands of the terrorists.

Religion is really only the tool that terrorists and war mongers use to bind a people, it's not the reason for the conflict, it's a method used to get young impressionable minds to go into battle.

Ok, I'm going to get a little offensive.


I checked the links and although I'm with you on your thoughts on your posts, I'm not with you on the links. Two atheists arguing religion, hilarious.



Ok, the Hindu "warrior god" to me is as asinine as believing in Zeus. It talks about the warrior gods battling in the netherworld to keep the sun rising & falling. Obviously a complete load of shit imo that would have Albert Einstein laughing on the floor. I mean "Indra, the warrior god, with his band of Maruts, defeats the demons of darkness each morning so that the sun could rise." Give me a break. That would be analogous to a verse in the Bible exclaiming that the earth was flat.


And I don't like your putting me in a position to defend the bible as an atheist but the bible Jesus link was from a parable. That link takes it totally out of context in a gigantic way. In that bible verse jesus was telling the parable of a >noble man< who became a King, had slaves and ordered death. Not a story about himself. He said in this story/parable "A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas. 'Put this money to work,' he said, 'until I come back. Then this noble man (not jesus, said) 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them - bring them here and kill them in front of me."

So that is out of context big time. And Buddha & Jesus never historically harmed anyone. But according to Muslim historic scholars, Muhammad killed thousands of people with his own bare hands. Now if thats not a grand canyon of views/history I don't know what is. And once again to your other link, all the old testament bible crap flew out the window because of the new testament and jesus according to christians etc. No more sacrifice, just turn the other cheek and be kind etc etc etc.

All religion is filled with acts of violence. Historically, the single religion that has the MOST blood on its hands are christians. Witch burning, the crusades, blah blah. The list goes on. Anyone depicting christianity as being the "purest" of the religions needs a reality check. All 3 of the major religions (Judiasm, Christianity and Islam) are ALL founded on the same concepts. In fact, they all share very similar views. Saying otherwise is just plain ignorant. History's most heinous acts were done on behalf of "god". Somehow it makes these acts ok, since they are being done for god. what a crock of shit religion is.

Looks like Christians are a bunch of warmongers! hahaha.

# 2 List of crusades

* 2.1 First Crusade 1095-1099
o 2.1.1 Siege of Jerusalem
o 2.1.2 Crusade of 1101
* 2.2 Second Crusade 1147–1149
* 2.3 Third Crusade 1187–1192
* 2.4 Fourth Crusade 1202–1204
* 2.5 Albigensian Crusade
* 2.6 Children's Crusade
* 2.7 Fifth Crusade 1217–1221
* 2.8 Sixth Crusade 1228–1229
* 2.9 Seventh Crusade 1248–1254
* 2.10 Eighth Crusade 1270
* 2.11 Ninth Crusade 1271–1272
* 2.12 Northern Crusades (Baltic and Germany)
* 2.13 Other crusades
o 2.13.1 Crusade against the Tatars
o 2.13.2 Crusades in the Balkans
o 2.13.3 Aragonese Crusade
o 2.13.4 Alexandrian Crusade
o 2.13.5 Hussite Crusade
o 2.13.6 Swedish Crusades