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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:38 pm
by lola
Beatport wrote:
If you're doing it yourself in a home studio then "mastering" is not the correct term. Even an entry-level mastering studio uses $15k full range speakers (not nearfields) and a highly trained professional that can hear a 1 db bump at any frequency. IMO, if you're serious about your EP, pay the $300 and send it to a pro. If you have a good mix, the results will really shine and give your track a pro sound.
Yup, that's what i did the last 20 years
One of the best masters i got back, was comming from Simon at the exchange (london). it was a huge difference.
Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:42 pm
by FrancodeLeon88
Lola - both and neither.
Edit:
Actually, not mastering for vinyl. I don't know what I was talking about. I've never released to vinyl personally. I understand the frequencies need to be changed to compensate for the phono pre amp. But, isn't that a cost usually associated with the pressing, and is a service of the vinyl manufacturer?
Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 12:03 am
by Hidden Driveways
I'd say mastering for vinyl is an entirely different topic. I would definitely not use my quick & dirty home "mastering" work for a vinyl release. I would spend money and hire an experienced pro for that, without a doubt.
Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 12:15 am
by lola
FrancodeLeon88 wrote:Lola - both and neither.
Edit:
Actually, not mastering for vinyl. I don't know what I was talking about. I've never released to vinyl personally. I understand the frequencies need to be changed to compensate for the phono pre amp. But, isn't that a cost usually associated with the pressing, and is a service of the vinyl manufacturer?
Good that i asked you this, cause with all the fancy lovely plug ins out there you can easily fuck up when you going to release it on vinyl, with CD this does not Mather that much but that a side.
Vinyl can not handle above 15 or 16khz as an example, and vinyl distorts and compresses.
So if you put all that fancy shit like compressors and stuff on your master, you will get a very muddy release
(probably you get send back home to RE-mix your stuff)
+ the fact that you don't want to have phase issues cause the needle will flip out it's groove when playing.
That's why i don't master myself. + like i said, they have really fancy analog and digital (weisz converters) stuff to handle the mixes.
Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:34 pm
by evon
I know I am going to get a lot of flack for this, but I am of the opinion that speakers and equipment don't really matter much in producing a great master. After all one of the aims of mastering is to make music sound good even on crappy speakers...so what's the big deal. Good equipment in my opinon just adds to the comfort level of the ME.
Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:40 pm
by evon
To back up this, some of the all time great music were recorded years ago and still sound great today.
Somehow, I feel like I am dead meat for these comments.
Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:19 pm
by Hidden Driveways
evon wrote:To back up this, some of the all time great music were recorded years ago and still sound great today.
Somehow, I feel like I am dead meat for these comments.
Would you feel comfortable sending a master CD of your own stuff off to a vinyl pressing plant along with a check for $2000 to press 1000 LPs?
Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:45 pm
by leedsquietman
Mastering is just a term. 'Mix Finalizing' is a term I often hear ME's use. Sequencing tracks in order, edits, fades, and red book compliant burning info such as PQ lists and ISRC codes or CD Text etc and preparing the master disc/tape/file for duplication/replication are also part of the deal if you're Mastering.
Many 'mastering' houses have nothing but a set of nearfields and a few mastering plugins. They charge less than a mastering facility of repute, but consequently, although they make make an improvement, you are not getting the absolute best. Like buying a car to go to work in, you could buy a Honda Civic or a top of the range BMW. Both get you to work, one just costs more but gives you more luxury.
There are different levels of mastering.
To have an album mastered by a facility which does have high end converters, high end outboard analog and digital gear as well as software and unbelievably accurate clock syncing and monitoring, will cost you well in excess of 300 dollars in most cases. Double or treble even, depending on the number of tracks and the album length. If you use a 'name' ME engineer, (i.e. Bob Ludwig, Doug Sax, etc) then that doubles or trebles THAT number.
If you are getting it done cheap by software mastering to see if you will get an improvement worth paying for, definately test them out and ask yourself, is it worth it, or could I do this myself with a little care and attention. Sometimes you can get great results, sometimes expensive mastering is not worth it either, always test it out first.
Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:29 pm
by evon
leedsquietman wrote:Mastering is just a term. 'Mix Finalizing' is a term I often hear ME's use. Sequencing tracks in order, edits, fades, and red book compliant burning info such as PQ lists and ISRC codes or CD Text etc and preparing the master disc/tape/file for duplication/replication are also part of the deal if you're Mastering.
Many 'mastering' houses have nothing but a set of nearfields and a few mastering plugins. They charge less than a mastering facility of repute, but consequently, although they make make an improvement, you are not getting the absolute best. Like buying a car to go to work in, you could buy a Honda Civic or a top of the range BMW. Both get you to work, one just costs more but gives you more luxury.
There are different levels of mastering.
+1
To have an album mastered by a facility which does have high end converters, high end outboard analog and digital gear as well as software and unbelievably accurate clock syncing and monitoring, will cost you well in excess of 300 dollars in most cases. Double or treble even, depending on the number of tracks and the album length. If you use a 'name' ME engineer, (i.e. Bob Ludwig, Doug Sax, etc) then that doubles or trebles THAT number.
If you are getting it done cheap by software mastering to see if you will get an improvement worth paying for, definately test them out and ask yourself, is it worth it, or could I do this myself with a little care and attention. Sometimes you can get great results, sometimes expensive mastering is not worth it either, always test it out first.
Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:11 pm
by Enrique
lola wrote:Beatport wrote:
If you're doing it yourself in a home studio then "mastering" is not the correct term. Even an entry-level mastering studio uses $15k full range speakers (not nearfields) and a highly trained professional that can hear a 1 db bump at any frequency. IMO, if you're serious about your EP, pay the $300 and send it to a pro. If you have a good mix, the results will really shine and give your track a pro sound.
Yup, that's what i did the last 20 years
One of the best masters i got back, was comming from Simon at the exchange (london). it was a huge difference.
Hmm, the exchange has quite a reputation. Will you tell us what track you gave them for mastering? I would also find it interesting to hear the unmastered product. It might just be my imagination, but I think they have a very distinct sound, no matter if it was mastered by Simon, Nilz or whoever...
Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:36 pm
by lola
Enrique wrote:lola wrote:Beatport wrote:
If you're doing it yourself in a home studio then "mastering" is not the correct term. Even an entry-level mastering studio uses $15k full range speakers (not nearfields) and a highly trained professional that can hear a 1 db bump at any frequency. IMO, if you're serious about your EP, pay the $300 and send it to a pro. If you have a good mix, the results will really shine and give your track a pro sound.
Yup, that's what i did the last 20 years
One of the best masters i got back, was comming from Simon at the exchange (london). it was a huge difference.
Hmm, the exchange has quite a reputation. Will you tell us what track you gave them for mastering? I would also find it interesting to hear the unmastered product. It might just be my imagination, but I think they have a very distinct sound, no matter if it was mastered by Simon, Nilz or whoever...
This sounds like a bad excuse but..
I would love to let you hear it, but unfortunately all my old stuff is on DAT tape, and no working DAT here anymore.
And the dub-plates and original masters are in hold off the record label i worked for back then.
Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:46 pm
by Enrique
lola wrote:
This sounds like a bad excuse but..
I would love to let you hear it, but unfortunately all my old stuff is on DAT tape, and no working DAT here anymore.
And the dub-plates and original masters are in hold off the record label i worked for back then.
Nah, I believe you. I expected something like "I wanna stay anonymous" (that would have been me, hehe)...
How was the sound different in comparison to other masterings, could you describe it in words? Did you attend the session?
Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:10 pm
by lola
Enrique wrote:lola wrote:
This sounds like a bad excuse but..
I would love to let you hear it, but unfortunately all my old stuff is on DAT tape, and no working DAT here anymore.
And the dub-plates and original masters are in hold off the record label i worked for back then.
Nah, I believe you. I expected something like "I wanna stay anonymous" (that would have been me, hehe)...
How was the sound different in comparison to other masterings, could you describe it in words? Did you attend the session?
Well the masters i normally went to, just adjusted it for being cut, so, if necessary make it more mono to avoid phase problems when cutting.
But with the ones comming from the exchange it was different, it sounded more bright more deffintion spectrumwise, and louder, it had this kinda shine over it what only they can add.
Also a old track that i did back in 92 was licenced to Tigersushi (label) in 2005 and they had it mastered somewhere in brussels (only forgot who did it), which also gave this really nice shine to it, was quite surprised when i heard it.
So there are a lot of differences between masters, the ones who adjust, and the ones who adjust and ADD their thing to it.
Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:37 pm
by Enrique
Thanks for this information Lola! The exchange would be my first choice, if I ever make an album...
Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:38 pm
by Incy
mastering yourself to compete with industry loudness?? what a waste of time.
what a way to destroy your art.