Ableton Forum

xh9o wrote:its bullshit as long as you don´t let live do its imho really awful sound manipulation/stretching with "warp" (which should be named "ruin"). abletons lack in common respect is nearly completely based on that.

,

this is where my hope in the serato partnership is: time 'n' pitch algo...

hopefully they are that clever.

m.nash wrote:So my friends and I were considering grabbing a UAD-1/2 card, but when we were chatting with a gent from the music store, he said we wouldn't be able to get out the quality of the plug-ins/card if we used Ableton.

That we would need Logic Pro or Pro Tools to really take advantage of it.

Any thoughts on this?

storename?
where?
name of storeguy?

The only reason, why he would tell you this is, that he wants you to buy protools or logic. I guess, that manufactures try to set shops under pressure, to sell appropriate products like Protools and Logic (where hardware is the dongle). Both make users depending on buying every upgrade, they come up on the market.

I prefer to stay independent of appropriate stuff. That gives me the most possible freedom in choosing the gear I like to create with.

MUSIC IS CREATED BY THE CREATITITY OF THE DAW-USER, NOT BY THE TECHNOLOGY (DAW), HE OR SHE USES!

At this point, I'm not sure I can offer dirt free mastering.

SubFunk wrote:

xh9o wrote:its bullshit as long as you don´t let live do its imho really awful sound manipulation/stretching with "warp" (which should be named "ruin"). abletons lack in common respect is nearly completely based on that.

,

this is where my hope in the serato partnership is: time 'n' pitch algo...

hopefully they are that clever.

don`t pitch algorithms also change with the implementation of elastik?
so i think most of the changing of the sounds depends on warp algorithms. at same leveling a bd in the browser and in live is for me quite the same

SubFunk wrote:this is where my hope in the serato partnership is: time 'n' pitch algo...

ah haven´t about that yet, thanks. that really brings up a very nice perspective!

Fieldy wrote:don`t pitch algorithms also change with the implementation of elastik?

as far my understanding goes, warps elastic audio should solve the problem of time change when pitch change and the other way around. as well as time ´n pitch. but as for many things, there is not just one way/algo do solve it. but there may be be one thats the better.

The only questions to ask in music shops is stuff like, "how long does it take to order if I want it in red?" "If I pay cash will you do me 10% off and throw in some cables".

Another tragic mistake: Will this product do.... (what you need it to do)
They will tell you yes. I have tried this a couple of times having read the review in a magazine first.

i was witness of the most shameless up sale ever at guitar center. while i was waiting for someone to help me get my Audio Kontrol 1, i overheard two japanese girls expressing how they wanted to buy an MPB, an audio interface, and some sort of software to record with...

to cut the story short, after 20 minutes of bullshitting, the sales guy got them to buy a complete Protools system...

lucky guy

kinda sort of lucky girls too

but man!

the thing that beats me is how bad a rap Guitar Center gets all over the music world, but you would think management would pay attention to the universal criticism and do something about...

Geebag wrote:Check out abletons document on sound quality. It prooves the theroy of bollox untrue.

actually their white papers are bullshit. they tell you HOW to use Live, which is cool, but they were touted as being about Live's sound quality. I was disappointed.


if Live sounds so great then why do some of the plug ins have Hi-Q modes? what about the ones that don't have Hi-Q modes? do they not need it?

Tone Deft wrote: if Live sounds so great then why do some of the plug ins have Hi-Q modes? what about the ones that don't have Hi-Q modes? do they not need it?

in the main .. no, they don't need it.

the 'hi-quality' settings are only really applicable to effects which, through their processing take the available frequencies up above nyquist (half the sample frequency) . If a frequency goes above nyquist then it produces aliased versions of those high frequencies, these aliases come reflecting back down into the audible - but they will be scattered un-musically.

Certain effects really shift the available tones above nyquist very easilly, for example - the saturator is a wave-shaping effect which creates extra harmonics above the ones you provide. Obviously 'above' means that any input with high harmonics will probably enable an un-over-sampled waveshaper to produce aliasing. In the past Saturator was not oversampled, but over sampling was added. To preserve the sound of old sets a 'legacy mode' was provided through the use of a 'high quality' menu option switch.

Of course - in newer effects, where there has never been a legacy, there is no need for a legacy mode and a switch has not been provided.

To answer your question directly though, as I wandered off topic.

Tone Deft wrote: why do some of the plug ins have Hi-Q modes? what about the ones that don't have Hi-Q modes? do they not need it?

Effects like Delay, or beat repeat, or the Looper don't need oversampling - because they are very unlikely to take a 10khz harmonic and do something horrible with it, such as transpose it up through the nyquist barrier.

Other effects could benefit from oversampling, for example the 'autofilter' would be very pleasant with a few more filter types and an oversampled Ladder in there. But in the main - the ones which have Oversampling are the ones that really really need it, the ones which do not are the ones where it would be a 'nice add on'

Having said all that, it's pretty moot anyway, as anyone that bases their estimates of Lives sound quality on AutoFilter's oversampling is looking in the wrong place anyway eh?

EG: Does Cubase still offer "Wunderverb" ? (which was the horriblest effect I ever heard) and does that make Cubase 'sound bad' ?

yes, anti-aliasing.

beat repeat has the same weakness (it has a filter and pitch shifter), I don't know if it has anti-aliasing built in. simple delay and utility are the only FX that wouldn't have this possible vulnerability.

/Devil's Advocate, Live's sound quality and AFAIK the quality of any DAW is far beyond what I do in my home. it's 2009, basic sound quality issues are taken care of.

roby wrote:the thing that beats me is how bad a rap Guitar Center gets all over the music world, but you would think management would pay attention to the universal criticism and do something about...

cmon these store people are no genius, most they recommend the shit they get the best money from. and yeah, pro tools does includ the "pro". so how can that be wrong? every little fucker wants to be respected as a "pro". though its sad and silly, its way funny from the other side.


the basical sound of live´s audio effect section is no good, you need some other tools to boost it up/set it right, filter some frequencies, giving t shape and life. but thats the same with cubase, aside halion they even sound worse. problem of the digital realm, even uad didn´t break through to a really "good" (meaning 3 dimensional and organic) sound so far. but maybe thats not nescessary, waiting for a digitally produced picture of the analog dimension.

i think guitar center is great... not for information or knowledgeof the products they sell! only for negotiating a good deal. i'll do my research online and then go there to get my sales guy to give me a great deal. I got Reason 4 two days before it's official release date for a discounted price and I bought Live 7 Suite full boxed version the day of it's release for $599. I think they've cut back on giving discounts these days but i can still get 10-15% off of most purchases. and the guy i ordered it through got a free copy of Live 7 Suite from Ableton because it was the first one they sold.

WOW! that makes life worth it! fantastic!

Jekblad wrote:i worked at a music store for several years. Not my favorite.

I pretty much was not a good salesmen, because i wanted them to get the best item for the best price. A lot of times that meant waiting and not buying anything, or buying a product we didn't carry.

I HATE going to guitar center.

It's sorta like, those who can't do, teach. Those who can't do and don't mind ripping off the parents of a 12 year old who wants to learn guitar, get into sales.

what a noob

Can't help but admiring the way you express this. This is very much how I feel about people who work in music stores..at least, quite a lot of the people who do.
If you get to express your self musically like this you should be one heck of a musician (but don't get swell headed now)