Ableton Forum

are you looking for something entry-level just to start making music? and are you looking for something for home studio use or for gig use? those focal speakers are meant to be desktop speakers, not for travel and gigs. an interface is absolutely essential unless you want to struggle using the onboard sound card of the macbook?!? it is not necessary at this point to get the best interface money can buy, but don't go without an interface at all. perhaps like others have suggested, the Presonus Fireobx will suit your needs. obviously speakers are essential, although i'm not sure i fully understand what you intend to use them for if you are now looking at those Focals. and yes, you should get a keyboard controller if you feel you need a keyboard although it's not essential for everyone. but a keyboard controller won't get you around Logic or Live much quicker than a mouse. if you are going to be putting together synth/piano parts, use a keyboard controller. if you will be making beats more than keyed parts, get a drum pad controller like the Korg padKontrol. the APC40 is great for Ableton Live but won't help much for Logic unless you plan to do a lot of programming to it. if you plan to use Logic more than Live, you may want to wait for the Novation Zero SL MK2 or for a keyboard/control surface in one, get the soon-to-be-released Novation 49 SL MK2 or 61 SL MK2. it really depends on what you feel your needs are.

I am going to be doing alot at home but this will only be for preperation for live performance. I thought those speakers would be a good starting ground for what im doing mainly because I dont need a PA system (or have the money for one) at this point. I need something that will sound nice in intimate settings such as houses, small rooms.

I will be doing synth parts and things like that, eventually drum pads will come into play.

As of right now my needs are quite simple. I just need a simple, great quality solution. Once I get the ball rolling I will know more specifically what direction I need to go in.

One more important question: How essential is an expresscard slot?

umm not to sound like a snob but you're opting for computer speakers? that's sooooo wrong, but suit yourself.

if you're going to really cheap out, forget monitors and just play through your home stereo.

the thread's a little long, what did you use when you made the tunes on your myspace? quality stuff, very very chill.

Tone Deft wrote:umm not to sound like a snob but you're opting for computer speakers? that's sooooo wrong, but suit yourself.

if you're going to really cheap out, forget monitors and just play through your home stereo.

It is not wrong considering my current needs/resources. So what should I do? I dont have enough money to get PA/monitors and I have no need for them right now. Like I have said 5+times... I need speakers that will work well for me to start working with ableton/logic. I thought I might aswell get some nice ones that will last me a long time and that will also allow me to do small home performances.

Is an express card slot a essential for an audio setup?

Im contemplating purchasing the newer macbook pro 17" which doesnt include the express card.

the weird part about all this is that your musical output far outshines your gear list, it's tripping me out. but you haven't posted what you already have or what you've decided on so I'm left assuming you have no gear. hey man, it's free advice, help us to help you.

sorry for my lack of effort but this thread isn't all that interesting. no offense, it's fun for you, this is exciting and you're making a serious commitment, I can respect that.

Dash wrote:It is not wrong considering my current needs/resources. So what should I do? I dont have enough money to get PA/monitors and I have no need for them right now.

my philosophy with gear is to buy once and buy it right. then upgrade pieces over the years as you master gear. spread your money thin and you gets lots of crap gear at the same time. this usually leads to people never truly learning their gear, it's overload. check the used market in your area for monitors.

Like I have said 5+times...

like I wrote, "the thread has gotten kind of long." it's free advice, lighten up.

I need speakers that will work well for me to start working with ableton/logic. I thought I might aswell get some nice ones that will last me a long time and that will also allow me to do small home performances.

for creating tracks you've already got it going. your tracks are pretty well produced and balanced. those applestore speakers compared to what Live/Logic/DAW/home producer/music making addicts use are a freaking joke. I haven't heard them but for their size I can't imagine them imaging for shit or having a flat response. you will soon get tired of them and they would be a waste of money.


entry level monitors go for ~$300/pair. you'll get sick of those in a few years (at most) and want to step up to something closer to the $1000 - $1500 range/pair. for home performance, seriously, just plug into your home stereo. for mastering, you can get *nice* headphones for $150.

you don't need an express slot for low latency, good quality. I get low latency with a PC laptop and a USB sound card. I imagine an express card sound card can be built more cheaply but that's me just thinking out loud, I don't know. I do know USB and firewire cards can be amazing.


seriously man, less talk, more action.
what have you decided on?
how much money do you have left?




idea - this is where I'm at with my basic setup.

$2k laptop priced 4 years ago (dual core 2GHz PC laptop)

$400 sound card, Edirol UA101 USB sound card. decent pre-maps, a handful of I/O.

Novation SL25 keyboard, dunno, like $300 IIRC. my large keyboard is an old Roland JX305, no clue what that cost, it was over a decade ago when I bought it.

Adam A7 speakers - $575 each (I love these things.) I started on Event PS5s. they were fine for a few years but I grew to hate them, they put the ass in bass.

I have more gear than that, but that's the basic setup. go through the forum and read peoples' gear lists in their signatures. also try other DAW web sites like KVR.



so, seriously. you gonna sit on the side of the pool all day asking how cold the water is or are you going to jump?


cool tunes, definitely keep up the music habit. I really have nothing more to say than what I wrote before. it starts with a good low latency sound card and good monitors. everything else in between is reflected by those. buy once, but it right.


hth I'm only trying to help.

Tone Deft wrote:

Dash wrote:It is not wrong considering my current needs/resources. So what should I do? I dont have enough money to get PA/monitors and I have no need for them right now.

my philosophy with gear is to buy once and buy it right. then upgrade pieces over the years as you master gear. spread your money thin and you gets lots of crap gear at the same time. this usually leads to people never truly learning their gear, it's overload. check the used market in your area for monitors.

I need speakers that will work well for me to start working with ableton/logic. I thought I might aswell get some nice ones that will last me a long time and that will also allow me to do small home performances.

for creating tracks you've already got it going. your tracks are pretty well produced and balanced. those applestore speakers compared to what Live/Logic/DAW/home producer/music making addicts use are a freaking joke. I haven't heard them but for their size I can't imagine them imaging for shit or having a flat response. you will soon get tired of them and they would be a waste of money.

entry level monitors go for ~$300/pair. you'll get sick of those in a few years (at most) and want to step up to something closer to the $1000 - $1500 range/pair. for home performance, seriously, just plug into your home stereo. for mastering, you can get *nice* headphones for $150.

seriously man, less talk, more action.
what have you decided on?
how much money do you have left?

cool tunes, definitely keep up the music habit. I really have nothing more to say than what I wrote before. it starts with a good low latency sound card and good monitors. everything else in between is reflected by those. buy once, but it right.

hth I'm only trying to help.

He seems a little defensive now, doesn't he?
We are just trying to help. I never made the mistake of buying computer speakers but i did make the mistake of getting a pair of monitors that were way too big for my room. i've got my equipment set up in this tiny 10' x 10' room and my first monitor purchase was a pair of Alesis Prolinear 820s. So my next purchase was the M-Audio BX5As. odd thing is, i don't like the sound of either one of them separately, but together they sound great. and i'm not just talking about the stuff i do. so that's how i do final mixdown usually. most of my mixing and production is done on a pair of ultrasone proline 650s or ultrasone DJ1 Pros if i want to hear the lows more.

back on topic, don't get those focal desktop speakers. buy yourself a decent pair of studio monitors. if i was going to spend around $500, i would probably have a listen to the new JBL 2300 series that just came out. $400 for the pair of 5" and maybe spend a little extra and get the sub too for another $400.

i'm pretty sure the new 17" macbook pros does have an express card slot but the smaller versions don't. express card slot is only necessary if you were going to get the RME multiface as it isn't a firewire or usb interface.

seriously how much money are you working with here? if you give us a budget, i'm sure we could help you out more.

I've used and had more expensive monitors, but keep coming back to Event ASP8's. But, this is for live use. Monitors would need covers over the speakers. If transporting, you'll rip the cones. You need some decent but cheapish speakers. How 'bout a pair of Mackie SRM 450's? They can be transported easily, sound great, and won't be too much for large living spaces.

A small mixer(Yamaha is good) will help in a pinch and will be easier to control effects sends.
You could get away without a mixer and just go with the computer mixers that are available with your audio interface. I have Windows-- the RME drivers are more stable than MOTU. The preamps on the Fireface are better than those on the MOTU Traveler. Those MOTU units are quite nice, since you can use them as a mixer (but would still want to use the GUI computer mixer in preference to the knobs).

You should have a decent external effects unit. I would have no interest in taking my good effects processors on the road, but a decent Lexicon effects (for delay, reverb, chorus, etc.) unit would help keep the load off your CPU and allow lower latencies.

A pair of SDC's (I use SM81's for acoustic guitar and lighter percussion instruments). If vocals, I'd recommended an SM7b. I'd can Logic and run everything through one DAW to make things simpler. In that case, control can be done adequately with the Akai APC 40 and the Behringer FCB 1010.

Is Live 8 ready for the Mac? It seems that most of the people having bad problems have Macs.
What you use at home may differ from what you use for Live use. I would not want to go through the work of deconstructing my patch bay, and disconnect my Fireface 800 setup. I'd get a very good small portable interface (MOTU or Fireface)

I appologize if I seemed annoyed or fed up, I have no place to be that way. Perhaps my ignorance is glaring. I sincerely appreciate the help and patience.

I am going to look into all this great advice you guys just gave me and get back to this post in a little while.

"seriously man, less talk, more action.
what have you decided on?
how much money do you have left?"

Today I just purchased a 17" macbook pro with 2.5 ghz, 4 GB Ram, 400 firewire, 800 firewire and an express slot to get the ball rolling. This is like home base.

"so, seriously. you gonna sit on the side of the pool all day asking how cold the water is or are you going to jump?"

hehehe. Im going to dive!

I have about 1,500$ to spend at this point.

interweb forums are perfect for misunderstandings, this makes for outstanding flame wars. no worries.

what gear do you already have? seems you're making groovy tunes, but with what?

Tone Deft wrote:interweb forums are perfect for misunderstandings, this makes for outstanding flame wars. no worries.

what gear do you already have? seems you're making groovy tunes, but with what?

Who doesn't love a good flame war?

The only equipment I have come in the form of instruments. 5 varied sized/keyed didgeridoos (from 4 foot all the way to 7 1/2 feet) a 22" frame drum, a steel Hapi drum, two pairs of tablas, a gong, a crystal bowl and a tibetan bowl.

For the music I made..it was a collaberation between me, a fretless bass player and a synth/flute player. This was done out of a garage with some fairly nice equipment and protools. It was done all out of the box. We then sent it to Laswell for mixing and some bass.

"Is Live 8 ready for the Mac? It seems that most of the people having bad problems have Macs."

I havn't heard of anything about this yet. Is this true?

"buy yourself a decent pair of studio monitors. if i was going to spend around $500, i would probably have a listen to the new JBL 2300 series that just came out. $400 for the pair of 5" and maybe spend a little extra and get the sub too for another $400."

This sounds right on, those looks very nice and quite affordable. Ill look into those more. It makes most sense to me to first get some speakers that are fairly nice for home use so I can fine tune my music until it is ready for travel.

"You should have a decent external effects unit. I would have no interest in taking my good effects processors on the road, but a decent Lexicon effects (for delay, reverb, chorus, etc.) unit would help keep the load off your CPU and allow lower latencies."

Definately. This is something I didn't think about until you brought it up.

"I'd get a very good small portable interface (MOTU or Fireface)"

This is probably exactly what ill need initially. I need something with the basics (mic preamp, enough inputs/outputs to get by with basic setup) until I figure out the direction im going.

I was also thinking of getting one fairly nice small portable midi keyboard and then a very nice larger keyboard for home use.

Hi Dash, interesting to hear of your plans & the instruments you're using.

I've been live sampling using Ableton for a couple of years with tabla, frame drums & various other percussion. Here's some of what I've found in case it's useful to you...

Live use of acoustic instruments mixed with electronics is quite different to using them in a studio environment & different to pure acoustic playing - consider carefully your mics etc.
Monitoring - I use headphones on stage - on stage monitors cause too many issues with feedback & ( in my case) resampling the mix. maybe less of an issue if you're not live sampling though.

The macbookpro has been working well for me, so I think you made a good decision there. I use a MOTU Traveller, which has also done me well.
I'd recommend getting something with plenty of inputs if you can - you may well find you'll want them over time & it isn't always practical to play different acoustic instruments through the same mic input on stage.

Midi controller - crucial bit of kit, though lots available & will depend on your personal needs - have a good think & look round before settling on that one.

I'd agree with Tone Deft about buy once & get it right, even if it means you can afford less in one go.

Hope some of this helps & good luck with it all.

you NEED
- sound card
- pre amp (this can be in the sound card.)
- mic
- monitors
- a keyboard

in that order of importance, I guess. the other stuff will come over time, with this you can get going, get more mics, controllers, sound libraries, it never ends. gear lust is a slippery slope.

for a sound card I'd look at one that has neutrik style connectors on it, they're a nice versatile style of input. check inputs 1-8, each one is a mono neutrik input.

a single connector can take in XLR or mic/guitar cables, very handy.

monitors - shoot for Adam, Genelec or Blue Sky. generally speaking those are the not crappy, not super expensive monitors I see knowledgeable people on the forum use.

buy used if you can.

for a keyboard, wait to see what your budget allows you, lots of options. you want one with some knobs and sliders and whatnot so you can control your mixes and effects.

hth

taaloopa wrote:Hi Dash, interesting to hear of your plans & the instruments you're using.

I've been live sampling using Ableton for a couple of years with tabla, frame drums & various other percussion. Here's some of what I've found in case it's useful to you...

Live use of acoustic instruments mixed with electronics is quite different to using them in a studio environment & different to pure acoustic playing - consider carefully your mics etc.
Monitoring - I use headphones on stage - on stage monitors cause too many issues with feedback & ( in my case) resampling the mix. maybe less of an issue if you're not live sampling though.

The macbookpro has been working well for me, so I think you made a good decision there. I use a MOTU Traveller, which has also done me well.
I'd recommend getting something with plenty of inputs if you can - you may well find you'll want them over time & it isn't always practical to play different acoustic instruments through the same mic input on stage.

Midi controller - crucial bit of kit, though lots available & will depend on your personal needs - have a good think & look round before settling on that one.

I'd agree with Tone Deft about buy once & get it right, even if it means you can afford less in one go.

Hope some of this helps & good luck with it all.

Sweet music Jon! Looks like you are going in a similiar direction as me. Good to hear that its possible .

That Blue Sky 2.1 setup looks really sweet.

Im in the process of talking to some personal musician friends about equipment so ill let you guys know what they suggest for my needs.

Thanks for all the direction.

Thanks Dash, yes, it's very possible, though takes a while to get things set up right for performance.

That presonus interface looks great with the 8 neutrik inputs - my MOTU only has 4 + 4 line in's, though some mics & instruments work fine through those.
Only thing I'd consider with that model is that with all the inputs on the front panel, you'd possibly have a lot of leads in your playing space on stage. I'm assuming that if you're playing tabla, you'd have a similar floor-based setup like mine.
I find having them on the back keeps it clear - don't want to be getting tangled up mid performance!