I want stability..

outershpongolia · Post by **outershpongolia** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:53 am

Who you callin' a douche, douche.

Seriously, Tone Detf.

I'm not retarded, are you 12 or something?

outershpongolia · Post by **outershpongolia** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:54 am

or 13?

whenchyiv · Post by **whenchyiv** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:28 am

outershpongolia wrote:that's what I call good advice..

My impression was that it would crash randomly, people say that ALL THE TIME.. but you are probably right.

I'll bet some of them are getting crashes on a cracked version and still want to come here for help thinking it's the program.

I own 8 Suite, and let me tell you: it crashed randomly constantly. I'd be minding my own business, try to copy a clip, crash. Try to drag in an instance of compressor, crash. Try to save, crash. Open a new project, crash. It was honestly ridiculous. The 8.05 beta has been a lot better so far. It's not perfect, but it's actually usable unlike 8.0-8.04.

DangerousDave · Post by **DangerousDave** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:56 am

outershpongolia wrote:Adobe CS4.

Got that for free today : ) Yay for being an arch. student.

Sorry, flying planes again, but on another note, Live has NEVER crashed on me, but I only use NAtive instruments and one piece o hardware. Still, anything with the word Ableton on it is worth its memory reqirement in gold.

And yes, bong now. thanks.

crumhorn · Post by **crumhorn** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:53 am

Live is a demanding application and most people, for some reason, seem reluctant to admit that computer could possibly be the problem.

I used to have all kind of problems with Live ( both 7 and 8 ) crashing randomly, crashing on exit, becoming incredibly sluggish and unresponsive, popping and crackling etc. All this was fixed by:

* clean the dust out of my laptop to stop it overheating and speed stepping.
* deregister by custom vst folder. no more vsts for now.
* clean up the hard drive and free up enough space for the system to work efficiently and avoid large files getting framented.
* put the ableton library and all my project files on an external 7200 rpm drive.
* be sure to turn on my firepod *after* the PC has started otherwise the drivers do some weird shit that can bog down the system.

Now it works like a charm and hasn't crashed since.

Bit disappointed about having to ditch the vsts. I might try reintroducing them slowly to see which ones are OK and which ones cause problems.

There are definitely some issues with Live and some plugins. It would be wonderful if they and the plugin manufacturers could get together to sort these problems out.

(not sure what relations between IK and Ableton are like after Robert Henke's comments about VST GUI design and graphical depictions of cooling fans etc.

)

jhartford · Post by **jhartford** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:02 pm

I'm so tired of reading posts like this...

I own 8 Suite, and let me tell you: it crashed randomly constantly. I'd be minding my own business, try to copy a clip, crash. Try to drag in an instance of compressor, crash. Try to save, crash. Open a new project, crash. It was honestly ridiculous. The 8.05 beta has been a lot better so far. It's not perfect, but it's actually usable unlike 8.0-8.04.

I can guarantee that its a problem with something in your setup and not with ableton (I'm probably gonna get flamed for saying that - but i don't really care).

A little background first - I've used live for the last 4 years, on all manner of setups - various windows machines and mac machines. I use it in a band live all the time (where i push what Live can do on a laptop to the limit: it acts as an effects processor for the singer's voice and bass guitar (so i'm running with minimal latency), and a sound source (all my synths are vsts), and a playback device for backtracks and a controller sending out midi to control everything from visuals to lights via midi - and all of this is done simultaneously), i dj with it, i used it to record our first album, etc, etc, etc... I'm currently running live 8.04 suite on os-10.5.7 and its extremely stable. That being said getting to this point has not been easy. I've fought with computers constantly and constantly redesigned my live set to get it to be stable.

Here's what i learn through this battle:

- Windows is awesome when it works but awful when it doesn't - the infinite permutations of hardware and software that exist on it make it very difficult to avoid conflicts (as an example - I had endless problems with my sound card when i was running windows with bootcamp until i found out that there was a conflict with a program that apple installs to make the keyboard function keys work. Quitting that process fixed all my problems)... driver conflicts are the first suspect with regards to audio dropouts - disable your internal soundcard and your wireless as a first step and then if that doesn't work follow one of the many, many, "windows audio optimization" tutorials on the net as a next step

- OS-X has a big advantage in that it has far less scope for driver conflicts, and, more importantly one macbook pro is effectively the same as another - this allows you to have a backup machine (even if it means borrowing someone else's computer for a gig). The same can't be said for a windows machine (I've got a four year old Dell computer that's rock solid with live audio and a one year old Dell with better specs than most macbook pros which i still haven't managed to make even vaguely usable)

- Assuming your soundcard and your operating system are playing together nicely (test this by seeing if you still get crashes with your internal soundcard and a really low buffer setting - you might get dropouts from your buffer setting being too low, but if live doesn't crash then the problem lies with your sound card), if you're still getting crashes your most likely culprit is somewhere in your vst folder.

- The easiest way to find out which vst is causing problems if you're running os-x is to look at the crash log when Live crashes - it will tell you which thread crashed and chances are the thread that crashed will be a thread running a vst (this is how i diagnosed my last problem with live - i was getting crashes when i looped in the arrangement view. It turned out it was just a dodgy plugin)

- Then check user error - the midi feedback discussed is a prime example of this: For those who don't understand - if you create a feedback loop of midi (ie loop the output of a midi track back into it's input) it will crash whatever sequencer you're running (not just Live). I think its funny how no one complains about the awful audio feedback you get when you route an output back into an input (cause in this cause everyone understands what's happening) but when the same thing happens for midi (which is data and hence can't just be clipped to prevent a crash like audio can) everyone thinks its a bug...

- If all else fails, it might be a bug in Live... but remember, chances are, if you're experiencing a bug, others will too. Just because people are complaining on the forum that "Live is unstable" doesn't mean they're experiencing the same problem you are (99% of the time the have one of the problems that have been mentioned above...). And remember, the forum is a really biased sample of stability of a program - the people most likely to post on a forum are those with problems - those who have a stable setup are generally too busy making music... its like how no one notices a referee until he has a bad game...

Bottom line: If you plan to use computers to make music, learn to troubleshoot in a methodical, logical manner - isolate problems then fix them - because there are thousands of things that could potentially go wrong when you're pushing computers to the extremes that we computer musicians push them.

fishmonkey · Post by **fishmonkey** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:34 pm

i'd flame you to hell and back if i didn't agree with you 100%...

3phase · Post by **3phase** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:37 pm

that is some kind and reflected advice...

BUT

"..Bottom line: If you plan to use computers to make music, learn to troubleshoot in a methodical, logical manner - isolate problems then fix them - because there are thousands of things that could potentially go wrong when you're pushing computers to the extremes that we computer musicians push them.
.."

this is so very true... But what has this to do with music? ok..a soldering iron is part of any good studio...but there is a speciallity in music with computers... and by now i think its not nature..its marketing...

every few years we end in the same situation where everything stopps working...harddisks need to be wiped..problems need to be isolated...
But even when this will ruin the industrie..we have to learn to stop updating..the quest for more allways leads into the pits of computer problems... so maybe it is nature..but nature where only soft and hardware companys win but never the user?

Use an old alchemy sample editor on a mac plus and do a timestretching..by chance this 8 mhz machine is doing it faster than your modern geektop...

Actually the best thing is to avoid computers in music production... rent a studio ..and refuse to pay the rent when theire daw fucks up the session...

zalo · Post by **zalo** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:17 pm

jhartford wrote:its like how no one notices a referee until he has a bad game...

OT: obviously you dont watch baseball, every ump has a bad game every game, (if you are a true fan of a team)

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:48 pm

Tone Detf wrote:
outershpongolia wrote:that's what I call good advice..

My impression was that it would crash randomly, people say that ALL THE TIME.. but you are probably right.

I'll bet some of them are getting crashes on a cracked version and still want to come here for help thinking it's the program.
Why are you bringing up that cracked version exist douche?

nice try you are obviously responding to yourself

3phase · Post by **3phase** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:54 pm

is it crashing or not? for some it is..for some it isnt...

but thats not good enough!

or at least not what we call a stable DAW...

beside.. wasnt this os x thing invented to avoid interaction betwenn software installations to get evrything more stable?

and isnt live 7 so much more stable than live 8?

this all points rather to a Live 8 problem than anything else.

a really small miniority of apple users is using live 8...

Which other apple software is crashing on a regular base?

Which other company claims crashes to be bad karma of the user?

outershpongolia · Post by **outershpongolia** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:44 pm

hurlingdervish wrote:
Tone Detf wrote:
outershpongolia wrote:that's what I call good advice..

My impression was that it would crash randomly, people say that ALL THE TIME.. but you are probably right.

I'll bet some of them are getting crashes on a cracked version and still want to come here for help thinking it's the program.
Why are you bringing up that cracked version exist douche?
nice try you are obviously responding to yourself

Are you talking about me?

outershpongolia · Post by **outershpongolia** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:48 pm

Ya fuck this forum anyways.. It was cool for like 2 weeks, now it's a bunch of 12 year olds with keyboards and a mouse that wanna say I'm responding to my own posts.

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:49 pm

outershpongolia wrote:Ya fuck this forum anyways.. It was cool for like 2 weeks, now it's a bunch of 12 year olds with keyboards and a mouse that wanna say I'm responding to my own posts.

who else would get angry enough to make a name imitating the person they are mad at?

then you try to prove your not by imitating his "asshole" response to you.

get over yourself and realize that people here will actually help you

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:53 pm

and if it wasnt you, welcome to the internet, you got trolled. ignore the bastard.

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