Ableton Forum

dom wrote:Berliner Schnauze is back
Relax!

hmmm... Damn!

It's just uggly at timrs how much wrong knowledge is spread, sorry.

lol, tell ME about how much wrong knowledge is spread in here? ;-)

dom wrote:lol, tell ME about how much wrong knowledge is spread in here?

hehe, how about ranting over a good whisky about it soon?

cheers buddy.

Any ranting must be done in the forum, you know the rules.

UKRuss wrote:Any ranting must be done in the forum, you know the rules.

ahhh... Damn, but here ain't a good glass of a vintage single malt...

SubFunk wrote:

shuutobi wrote:

SubFunk wrote:wrong.

HIGH SPL regardless of frequencies can damage the cilia hairs in the cochlea and/or rupture your eardrum...

yep, only that certain extreme low frequncies not, about the range under 60Hz (unless you use a motorbass, which is forbidden, worldwide). And the upper range of the bass endanger way, way less the mid high and especially distorted mid high frequencies, and you do not loose your entire hearing from low frequencies no matter at what db level, before it does not tear many of your inner organs apart befor the ear is affected. But you easy get deaf from highs.

Please do not argue something you don't know.

Not arguing, just standing by the statement...
Low frequencies can be tolerated longer than mid/high frequencies, but anything especially over 120dB should be avoided.

OSHA (1998)
90 dBA Slow for 8 hours
92dBA Slow for 6 hours
95 dBA Slow for 4 hours
97 dBA Slow for 3 hours
100 dBA Slow for 2 hours
102 dBA Slow for 1.5 hours
105 dBA Slow for 1 hour
110 dBA Slow for 1/2 hour
115 dBA Slow for 1/4 hour

Note the dBA

More importantly, which version of Live is DM using?

jhartford&ukruss:

we have some material with jon explaining his usage of live at the FOH, also using Live as an fx box as depeche mode do - basically allowing him to use plugins on the live vocals to recreate the stuff from the studio, while Liam is using Live on two machines for playing the show - but i totally respect Liam's wish not to publish detailed pics of his stage rig.
No biggie, it is more or less the usual stuff, 2 macs, a handful of motu's, midi keyboard and controllers, some nice toys like the virus, a voyager etc.
There's a nice video on their youtube channel and in some shots you can see him rocking his stuff pretty good, so i'm not revealing any big secrets here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTpKwq5BFNc

Also this video is the closes thing to explaining how much energy their gigs transfer without being there.

SubFunk wrote:yep, only that certain extreme low frequncies not, about the range under 60Hz (unless you use a motorbass, which is forbidden, worldwide).

What's a motor bass bin?

I can understand why low frequency sound is much less damaging...low frequency carries much less energy over a given amount of time than higher frequencies. At least I assume that's the explanation.

They're called Servodrives: Instead of moving the speaker using the good old coil and magnet you use servo motors. As in: power.

ethios4 wrote:No computer is going to be 100% reliable, so having a redundant setup seems to make the most sense, barring cost.

How exactly would you set up a redundant setup? is there a thread around about this?

I use the same Livest for all songs so if I ever got around to making a redundant setup it would be playing back the same thing, not switching between setups.

Gary Long's video on ableton.com show's him switching between his 2 computers and it's seemless. Does he send MIDI messages to both computers at the same time? is there a MIDI interface involved? and both computers have an audio card?

ethios4 wrote:

SubFunk wrote:yep, only that certain extreme low frequncies not, about the range under 60Hz (unless you use a motorbass, which is forbidden, worldwide).

What's a motor bass bin?

I can understand why low frequency sound is much less damaging...low frequency carries much less energy over a given amount of time than higher frequencies. At least I assume that's the explanation.

yeah motor basses are using a motor instead of a coil... they are completely forbidden for commercial use... they can develop sound pressure levels at deepest frequencies that can easy kill people... they basically tear your guts and body and houses and cars and whatever apart.

they have been developed by the american army to emulate the deep rotor vibrations caused by helicopters to test there engineering / built.

then have been used for a while also commercially until they caused to much damage... and since then they are forbidden for commercial use.

SubFunk wrote: they have been developed by the american army to emulate the deep rotor vibrations caused by helicopters to test there engineering / built.

then have been used for a while also commercially until they caused to much damage... and since then they are forbidden for commercial use.

Nah, says who?

dom wrote:

SubFunk wrote: they have been developed by the american army to emulate the deep rotor vibrations caused by helicopters to test there engineering / built.

then have been used for a while also commercially until they caused to much damage... and since then they are forbidden for commercial use.

Nah, says who?

what? the development or that they are forbidden...?

about the initial reason for development? i have this info from our hardware developer and he is more than trustworthy! (i personally take his word anytime over anything else i can get an info from, when it comes to audio! for sure! he is a "graue eminanz" in the audio world and enjoys a worldwide respect.)

and about being forbidden, yeah the real motor basses are illegal.. the manufacturing of bass bins with motors instead of coils does still exist, thou.
but they are limited and perform more or less just like coil systems, that stuff has nothing to do with a real motor bass which is capable of producing 150db + at frequencies as low as 6hz. (those are commercially not around anymore, for obvious reasons)

ASA (his nickname) our hardware developer, wanted to use them (a smaller system, but still one which is not allowed anymore) once at a mayday (many, many years back)... they did soundcheck could hardly figure any bass in the hall... until they got complains that cars parked outside the westphalen halle started to shake and fall apart and decided not to use them...

EDIT: and by the way, where have you been yesterday?

SubFunk wrote:

dom wrote:

SubFunk wrote: they have been developed by the american army to emulate the deep rotor vibrations caused by helicopters to test there engineering / built.

then have been used for a while also commercially until they caused to much damage... and since then they are forbidden for commercial use.

Nah, says who?

what? the development or that they are forbidden...?

Both!

SubFunk wrote: about the initial reason for development? i have this info from our hardware developer and he is more than trustworthy! (i personally take his word anytime over anything else i can get an info from, when it comes to audio! for sure! he is a "graue eminanz" in the audio world and enjoys a worldwide respect.)

Great source... as in: urban myth :) Gimme facts!

SubFunk wrote: and about being forbidden, yeah the real motor basses are illegal.. the manufacturing of bass bins with motors instead of coils does still exist, thou.
but they are limited and perform more or less just like coil systems, that stuff has nothing to do with a real motor bass which is capable of producing 150db + at frequencies as low as 6hz. (those are commercially not around anymore, for obvious reasons)

On the one hand, there are servo designs based on coils and only utilize the mechanical servo feedback in relation to the input signal to drive the coil with less distortion and on the other hand the real servo drivers, where the servo motor power drives the bass - but neither of them are illegal - or can you point me to a law?

In germany there's even no law yet imho that handles sound volume in clubs at all, not to mention trying to forbid a particular loudspeaker design in general.

Do you know the rotary subwoofers? Generating bass by tilting the blades of a rotating fan, much like a helicopter. You can reach below 1HZ with serious level using those.

http://www.rotarywoofer.com/

SubFunk wrote: EDIT: and by the way, where have you been yesterday?

My dj/producer mate from NRW flew in for a bussiness meeting and we had a drinking meeting afterwards.

Cheers,
Dom