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Re: LAUNCHPAD - Day 1
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:27 pm
by chis
Alex wrote:Hi folks,
there will be an Live 7 update including Launchpad support.
I cannot yet offer a release data but it should be soon.
Sorry for the inconvenience
Regards
/Alex
Alex, can you guys PLEASE fix the Win 7 redraw issue so compatibility isn't required???
I would rather not have to activate it AGAIN!
Re: LAUNCHPAD - Day 1
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:06 pm
by ryanisflyboy
ryanisflyboy wrote:
- The biggest draw back I'm seeing immediately is a long 'refresh' time while bouncing between functions. For example, going from mixer to session takes longer than it should. It 'draws in' the LEDs. This needs to be improved for serious live performers. Hopefully Novation/Ableton can improve screen re-draw performance. It really is distracting. Try this: mash the session/user1/user2/mixer buttons really fast, you'll see your Launchpad freak out until it clears all the pages. I mashed them fast for 15 seconds, and got it to freak out for like 3 minutes. And yes, until the buffer clears, your gonna have to wait! Fix please!
Sorry to be lame and do the self quote thing, but....
How many other owners are seeing this issue? In the demo video it appears the change between, say, session and mixer happens VERY fast (near instant). In reality, it is not working that way for me. \What things can I try to increase redraw speed?
Now, I'm not that fast, so I can live with slow. 95% of the time the Launchpad is faster than I am. That said, there is no way you could pull off the demo video with one of these things unless you slowed it down 5-10%. I want to be proven wrong. Is there something I'm missing that will increase LED grid redraw speed - or is the demo video 'faked' (sped up)? Yes, I'm asking point blank: Did anyone at either Novation or Ableton artificially speed up the demo video? Does the demo video accurately portray realistic device performance? What system configuration was used in the demo video (baseline requirements to reproduce the performance as shown in the product video)?
Re: LAUNCHPAD - Day 1
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:18 am
by jake noise
ryanisflyboy wrote:
- The biggest draw back I'm seeing immediately is a long 'refresh' time while bouncing between functions. For example, going from mixer to session takes longer than it should. It 'draws in' the LEDs. This needs to be improved for serious live performers. Hopefully Novation/Ableton can improve screen re-draw performance. It really is distracting. Try this: mash the session/user1/user2/mixer buttons really fast, you'll see your Launchpad freak out until it clears all the pages. I mashed them fast for 15 seconds, and got it to freak out for like 3 minutes. And yes, until the buffer clears, your gonna have to wait! Fix please!
Sorry to be lame and do the self quote thing, but....
How many other owners are seeing this issue? In the demo video it appears the change between, say, session and mixer happens VERY fast (near instant). In reality, it is not working that way for me. \What things can I try to increase redraw speed?
Now, I'm not that fast, so I can live with slow. 95% of the time the Launchpad is faster than I am. That said, there is no way you could pull off the demo video with one of these things unless you slowed it down 5-10%. I want to be proven wrong. Is there something I'm missing that will increase LED grid redraw speed - or is the demo video 'faked' (sped up)? Yes, I'm asking point blank: Did anyone at either Novation or Ableton artificially speed up the demo video? Does the demo video accurately portray realistic device performance? What system configuration was used in the demo video (baseline requirements to reproduce the performance as shown in the product video)?
Hmm, haven't got a launchpad yet but looking at the midi spec that novation released which is
linked to and discussed here it looks like there's roughly 200ms needed to completely update the launchpad. This shouldnt be too prohibitive for most stuff, although it means that those who want to dive into deep max/whatever programming to use the launchpad as a visual display for say animation may need to come up with a few hacks to get reasonable refresh rates.
As regards to your stress test, yes it sounds like you can completely confuse the launchpad if you mash the buttons for 15 seconds, but when are you seriously going to want to do that in either a live or studio situation?
However if 200ms is prohibitive for you when changing modes then I guess that you could get a second launchpad and dedicate one to session and one to mixer? I know this isnt ideal, but reading that spec I dont see what you can do to improve the performance...
Re: LAUNCHPAD - Day 1
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:04 am
by dapper
ryanisflyboy:
Hay, I just wanted to give big ups to ya real quick. I bought my Launchpad from that same SLC guitar center yesterday as well =] I bought the 5th one, made me wonder who bought the other 3! We should chat online sometime about what we're up to with the launchpad! You can link my myspace, facebook, and new ableton-made album from
www.dontbedapper.com
Hit me up so we can chat about our new launchpads!
-dapper
Re: LAUNCHPAD - Day 1 - SLOW REDRAW SOLVED
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:00 am
by ryanisflyboy
jake noise wrote:
Hmm, haven't got a launchpad yet but looking at the midi spec that novation released which is
linked to and discussed here it looks like there's roughly 200ms needed to completely update the launchpad. This shouldnt be too prohibitive for most stuff, although it means that those who want to dive into deep max/whatever programming to use the launchpad as a visual display for say animation may need to come up with a few hacks to get reasonable refresh rates.
As regards to your stress test, yes it sounds like you can completely confuse the launchpad if you mash the buttons for 15 seconds, but when are you seriously going to want to do that in either a live or studio situation?
However if 200ms is prohibitive for you when changing modes then I guess that you could get a second launchpad and dedicate one to session and one to mixer? I know this isnt ideal, but reading that spec I dont see what you can do to improve the performance...
Thank you for the link Jake. That was just the info I needed. I was seeing closer to 300-400ms to refresh.
I am happy to report that I solved the problem by adding a USB controller to my system, and running the Launchpad off of it. The refresh rate is now well under 200ms (best I can tell). Now, I must say, I am very happy. I'd probably guess the delay is around 60ms on the dedicated controller - a huge improvement. This thing just got a lot more useful.
Now time for me to get out of the forums and in to Ableton.
Re: LAUNCHPAD - Day 1
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:50 am
by zenke
Could you explain what you mean by a USB controller
cheers
Re: LAUNCHPAD - Day 1
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:13 am
by Emissary
Also its day 2 now, please change your title or you will be banned
Re: LAUNCHPAD - Day 1
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:34 pm
by hybridjosto
zenke wrote:Could you explain what you mean by a USB controller
cheers
my thoughts are a maybe powered hub?
Re: LAUNCHPAD - Day 1
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:41 pm
by CageofConsent
Bought mine yesterday and it has really brought the fun of playing with Ableton back to the fore. It feels so much more 'right' than mouse-clicking or using a midi keyboard.
Now I just have to get used to juggling between modes while keeping everything going, as buying one of these lovely machines has wiped me out - even at the very nice price point.
Re: LAUNCHPAD - Day 1
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:16 pm
by arcsun
can anyone help me out with mine. when i switch between modes - session and mxier etc theres a horrible lag and you cann notice it with the music thats playing as wellas the machine.
i dont get lags in the sound just clicking about sp im sure its down the the device.
can any one shed some light.
edit: sorry just read above about the 200ms lag. however any help appreciated. cos its glitching the sound just to bring up the mixer ? ? ?
also what channels do the launchpad need to eb set to to see the user modes. i see that user 1 responds when i setup battery 3 and then monitor In the midi on channel 1 from the launchpad but i wanted user 2 to be like a keyboard to use for a synth
thanks a lot
Re: LAUNCHPAD - Day 1
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:10 pm
by ryanisflyboy
zenke wrote:Could you explain what you mean by a USB controller
cheers
Here is a good example:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6815124008
I had one too many USB devices plugged in. Just too much stuff going on. I would guess the reason why this matters is that the Launchpad has to check the state of each button as it draws the screen. The path is probably something like: launchpad->usb->bus->context switch->query status of object in ableton->context switch->bus->usb->launchpad. Do that for just about every single button on the device and you're talking some serious overhead.
So imagine an overloaded USB controller on your motherboard, with lots going on. Lets say there is a 6ms round trip to go from the launchpad, through your busy USB controller, to Live, and back again. That's 6ms times 64 buttons - 384ms! Now, if you throw it behind a dedicated USB controller (or, a chip that isn't so busy) then you might get that latency down to 1ms, or 64ms total. It makes a big difference, at least it did for me.
I would imagine a busy CPU, or anything else that causes lag in your system, is going to cause this behavior. Going through a USB Hub would probably make this issue even worse, as you'd have to go through two USB chips before you hit the bus.
In short - the Launchpad loves low latency USB connections.
Re: LAUNCHPAD - Day 1
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:32 pm
by davepermen
hm.. having a lot of usb problems on my desktop, might be worth a try.. have to open it, i think i have a pci-e 1x and a pci slot free
usb gallore!!
(soundcard should be dedicated, too, as i have huge issues which i haven't on any other system)
Re: LAUNCHPAD - Day 1
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:17 pm
by arcsun
hmm. wierd. ive got a korg nanoKontrol as well - usb obviously.
In prefs this is also set up on track and remote in and out
When i use the launchpad its fine. When i setup a midi mapping for using the korg nanokontrol - say a knob to control the modultor of lfo 5 rate on massive then even if nto tweaking it - i get a latency when switching modes on the launchapd. if i remove the midi mapping from the korg nanokontrol then its fine.
wierd so obviously some sort of conflict ?
due to korgnano sending cc ??
hmm edit: a reboot of live fixed it.
this is very wierd indeed.
Re: LAUNCHPAD - Day 1
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:32 pm
by arcsun
also, why are my midi outs all grey instead o orange in my prefs.
could these be a problem, i cant select any midi out ports in a midi channel. t says that midi out is possible in live 8 launchpad edition ?
Re: LAUNCHPAD - Day 1
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:39 pm
by Tone Deft
arcsun wrote:also, why are my midi outs all grey instead o orange in my prefs.
could these be a problem, i cant select any midi out ports in a midi channel. t says that midi out is possible in live 8 launchpad edition ?
an orange midi port means Live can't use the port. at the least you have to restart Live. in Live orange ALWAYS means there's a problem.
kleine wrote:Hello,
Orange means that Live can´t access the MIDI driver or that the MIDI driver can´t access the interface because it´s not connected/powered down etc. It often helps to either reboot or reconnect the MIDI interface. In other cases it only helps
to reboot Live.
Best,
Christian