[ot]: How afraid are you of the future?

[ethios4]

Agreed. Part of the work I do with young people involves encouraging them to take responsibility. However, to find solutions to a problem we must first look at the causes, and get people to understand why they do what they do.

True. Also, there are lots of different kinds of people and what works for one type may not work for another. So you also have to know who you are. For example, I have been learning lately what a visual learner I am. Most of the time I just have to 'see' something to get it, even if it's just taking what someone has said and staring off into space to visualize it. I had been thinking maybe I had some problem with attention span, but no it's just that I don't do well when just hearing things. It helped me to learn that there are different styles, and mine is visual....not that there's something 'wrong' with me.

[Tone Deft]

it's not a fear but the rise of absolutely retarded OT threads is disappointing.

[stringtapper]

You're question is based on the assumption that we agree the present exists, and that a "now" can be perceived as more than anticipation and remembrance. I would agree that the concept of the past would be more tangible than the concept of the future because the future is only our anticipation of events rather than a remembrance of events.

Prick your finger with a pin. Try to anticipate the pain before it happens, try to remeber the pain after it has happened. Unless you are very unusual you'll only experience the pain when it happens and the memory will fade as quickly as the pain.

Ah but even the event of feeling pain can be quantified as an array of events leading to that one thing that we experience. So how long or short can a "now" be? When does the actual "now" happen? When the pin breaks the skin? When it hits the first nerve ending? When the nerve ending sends the signal to the brain? Just because we cannot perceive the array as anything more than one single event does not make it only that.

The very fact that we give these states names creates conceptual boundaries between them.

Conceptual boudaries are as insubstantial as conceptual states.

I agree, which is why I prefer to consider any real (versus conceptual) state we may exist in with regard to temporality to be merely a reflection of our perception, meaning our awareness itself is the state and that no truly temporal state exists, past, present, or future.

Because a standard definition of "experience" is "the practical contact and observation of facts or events" I would say that it would be rather questionable to consider someone with no memory of an event to be considered to have experienced it. As outsiders we could observe that the event did indeed occur and that the amnesiac was involved, but experience is dependent on consciousness and therefore memory.

I would refer you to the pin prick example above. If they react to the pain then they experience it, even if they don't remeber the experience.
Consciousness does not depend on memory, only awareness.

I would counter that consciousness is memory, even if our brains don't afford us the ability to perceive it as such.

[LoopStationZebra]

my head hurts.

[gjm]

All we really have in life is our power of personal choice...how we react in our heads. Blaming anything other than ourselves for our choices is voluntarily relinquishing the only power we really have.

I Like what you say here. Having once been a professional youth worker, then an employer, and now a parent of 15 years, I am absolutely convinced that imparting any skills for life to younger peeps starts with the process of thinking/creating personal choice options. I agree with subfunk about parents passing on skills for life, but I also think that most formal educating systems do not teach kids how to learn as an ongoing life skill when it comes to shaping their own character....

Back to options and choices though, in a sense blaming others is justified in that if those who were my care givers gave me little or no sensible options, and I did not have enough life experience to have clear 20/20 sight of the past, and I had little or no teaching regarding options or life skills and how to create them, then there are elements of legitimate blame. Some one has failed to a degree to carry out an adequate role. We all make decisions based on the knowledge we have at the time. Young people do this extremely well. Its the skill of picking up the pieces and moving on thats most often missing.

To be fair, its not only a nurture thing, but a nature thing as well. Regardless of the amount of positive pro active role modeling, the nature of some people will prevent them from ever accepting any level or responsibility for their cycle of thinking and action.

Parenting is just plain fucking hard. There is a hypocritical element to it that you cannot escape. Also, one size does not fit all when it comes to dishing out that role. I have developed a small check list of how to approach the role, but I know in 15 years time I will have regrets and wish I could turn back the clock.

[ethios4]

Back to options and choices though, in a sense blaming others is justified in that if those who were my care givers gave me little or no sensible options, and I did not have enough life experience to have clear 20/20 sight of the past, and I had little or no teaching regarding options or life skills and how to create them, then there are elements of legitimate blame.

Yea, that situation would be really hard to get out of, and if it is to happen at all it will only be through choosing to get out of it. I think those choices are there for most everybody, although most people are not even aware of the power of their own will to create their future. That's why I dislike the advancement of philosophical/intellectual support for the blame/victim mentality. IMO, we should be reminding/reinforcing/rewarding the idea and power of choice and free will...it's not an immediately obvious life skill!

A good friend of mine recently had a terrible bout of depression, we got to talking about it one day and it came down to an intellectual conflict he was having. He is a big physics/science nerd and he was not able to see any room for free will in a purely deterministic universe. So he felt totally at a loss to combat his depression since it seemed to him a foregone conclusion based on brain chemistry.

[twisted-space]

So how long or short can a "now" be?

It's not long or short it just is.

When does the actual "now" happen? When the pin breaks the skin? When it hits the first nerve ending? When the nerve ending sends the signal to the brain?

Yes.

I agree, which is why I prefer to consider any real (versus conceptual) state we may exist in with regard to temporality to be merely a reflection of our perception, meaning our awareness itself is the state and that no truly temporal state exists, past, present, or future.

So past and future are illusions and all that exists is my awareness in the now.

I would counter that consciousness is memory, even if our brains don't afford us the ability to perceive it as such.

Consciousness is not memory, an amnesiac isn't unconscious, merely forgetful.

it's not a fear but the rise of absolutely retarded OT threads is disappointing.

Life's full of these little disappointments, I'm sure you'll get over it.

[Ed J]

You seem to have forgotten utter apathy as an option in your poll. Please rectify so the more overly-even of us can play too

[LoopStationZebra]

I'm afraid of what Tone is going to do if there's anymore OT threads.

[Tone Deft]

it's not a fear but the rise of absolutely retarded OT threads is disappointing.

Life's full of these little disappointments, I'm sure you'll get over it.

then I look forward to the future. not too far into the future, it'll be Monday again in a few days, I can skip that crap.

[SubFunk]

I'm afraid of what Tone is going to do if there's anymore OT threads.

LOL

[Tone Deft]

I'm afraid of what Tone is going to do if there's anymore OT threads.

piss and whine.

[ChiDJ]

I'm afraid of what Tone is going to do if there's anymore OT threads.

piss and whine.

Would you like some cheese to go with that "whine"?

[mikemc]

You seem to have forgotten utter apathy as an option in your poll. Please rectify so the more overly-even of us can play too

OK, fixed all around, happy now???

[H20nly]

I don't think 9 poll options is enough.

if you really want to have low % results you need at least 12.