Ableton Forum

I am with leeds,

to me it is not about having the 20 or 50 dollars, and it isn't greed either,
but very much about the principle that it is a service that deserves to be paid for,
even if it is a very small amount, he could have offered, concidering he is not asking for the first time,
it is funny to me that most of you seem to have a problem with money in the context of music/audio
but not within your 'other' day jobs that pays your rent/food...

really weird.

Z3NO wrote:Amend that...

cacti wrote:PASSION vs. GREED

peace

high vs. mighty...
how I love the self righteous ..

Someone who is a an audio pro was kind enough to master my first track for me, and taught me a bit in the process. It gave it that extra boost it needed to 'get over the line' and subsequently got a bit of play on radio etc. I was very appreciative, everyone was happy.

I have offered my help and it has been accepted, I have no doubt that the OP would give credit where its due if it was required.

No need to be all aggro guys, the Op is a nice guy, the track was a good 'un and he got the result he wanted.

While I do understand all the arguments about pro mastering and what it is/isn't there is always a case for budding amateurs or pros to seek cheaper alternatives knowing they are going to be software driven rather than pro mastering houses. For me, particularly in dance music, the returns are so low it would clearly be insane to pay crazy sums for individual tracks to be mastered.

I enjoy doing it, I don't expect huge returns and it gives me and the track producer a buzz if it comes out sounding great. Which it did!

Zeno - Services and professionals are the same thing - the comparison with the plumber and the audio/mastering engineer should not be something to be scoffed at - I did 3 years of audio engineering/music technology at University, plus another 2 courses on mastering (which cost me mucho dollars), then did 6 years working for a pittance in studios, where the first 2 years were pretty much tea boy/sandwiches and tape op editing 2" multitrack tapes, before being allowed to touch a mic stand and another 6 months beyond that to lay fingers on a console. Yet, this is all redundant, music is the only field where it's skilled people are expected to just give it all away in this age of entitlement. Immigration and unemployment was not mentioned or inferred to except by you. Does your local supermarket give away your food? Does your plumber not charge you $55 an hour and more plus parts and labour, because I would like to meet these people ...

You missed the point - firstly, the OP and I made up by PM, and I apologized in the thread and was trying to reconcile the tone before you basically stir the pot again and label me as a greedy and unsuccessful shit while going on to toot your own horn. I'm so happy you're doing fine ...I was laid off after 8 years because no-one is hiring studios any more or paying for musical expertise, they are just getting a bunch of cracked software and plugins and some of the cheekier ones try to sell this mass produced garbage. Many studios have gone to the wall and some of that expertise will go to waste, which is a real pity.

Secondly, I have done a ton of things for free including mastering people's work on this forum for free, and doing extensive remixing and mastering to some people I like and admire their talent for a fraction of what it would cost in a studio. I just donated a track to a Haiti charity project ( http://haiti.bandcamp.com ) - my track is called 'Hope' track number 4, so far we have raised several hundred dollars. Ewan McGregor and Nick Mason are so rich they could afford to not work again, I, like most people are struggling just to survive. If I had their money I would be giving plenty back too...

We all do what we do for love, but if that doesn't put food on the table then we have to do something else. We don't live in a ancient life of bartering music for food, or goats for blacksmiths, the world we live in demands cold, hard cash.

I gave the OP some tips by PM but thanks to those people like Axel who live in the real world and get what it means to make a living from music and how difficult that is. It's not just a case of 'not being good enough', there are plenty of people out of work or who went into other careers who have better chops and more skills than some who are doing this for a living full time, it's a complex thing but thank your lucky stars if you can exist in this line of work, it's brutal out there.

leedsquietman wrote:It's not just a case of 'not being good enough', there are plenty of people out of work or who went into other careers who have better chops and more skills than some who are doing this for a living full time, it's a complex thing but thank your lucky stars if you can exist in this line of work, it's brutal out there.

spot on.

i will leave the OP in peace and it's 'solved' anyways,

but what leeds says is so true, i know plenty of people myself that are so much better in any respect then me, better engineers, better musicians, better DJs, etc. most of which don't make a living from it, respectively are not able to!!!

but i made after i followed for 6 years a different job career after leaving school (photography) a clear decision in my life, and that is making money and a living with what i love most and can do best (best in terms of my own skills, not best as in being the best in audio, i am for sure not)

and that is pretty much all about the attitude*** (assuming you have a basic skill set and knowledge!, obviously) to not do something for free anymore
(or really rare for maybe the one or other close friend) that is why i jump usually 'negative' into such discussions...

people who do all the time stuff for free do destroy environments and markets in the long run for others and often for them selfs...

that is all.

it usualkly takes a few years to realise, though...

p.s. and mostly the more experienced, usually a bit older and skilful guys especially around here really can't be blamed not to give help and knowledge out all the time, all of them, and if you take it or not is up to you... meaning the OP could have already tried a little bit harder for himself with all that is given here...


*** plus the attitude of being able to deliver a product on time and to leave your personal taste most of the time out. (talking service here, not art, if you do art related stuff, then it's a different topic i am talking about engineering, production, etc. not making music, that is a different topic, whereby the principles of making a living from it are the exact same... a certain attitude, and reliability is needed not just talent, or you are lucky and find a second peter grant LOL)

well, remember some of the words when you grow up and maybe discover that you want to make music your bread and butter and you realise how hard it is and what it actually takes to do it.

cheers and peace.

*yawn* your all old and dried up...



jk.. ive learnt shitloads from a lot of peoples tl;dr posts on here in which i am forever greatfull
weather its mastering/mixing/general life shit its definatly changed me for the better.

funky shit wrote:*yawn* your all old and dried up...

said the boy, still living of mommy

SubFunk wrote:

funky shit wrote:*yawn* your all old and dried up...

said the boy, still living of mommy

damn right!
staying that way for a while too.
we just got a scary electric bill in the other day. no way am i moving out with all this gear/job/education/woman/food/oil/electric/clothes (okay i buy those myself)/petrol for car/cocaine/beer and kebabs i need to keep myself rolling.

Why is ''''''''mastering'''''''''' somehow more important than composition, patch creation, performance, consultation, arrangement, etc etc etc ?

In my world I am surrounded by immensely talented individuals with real credibility, experience & skill who tirelessly provide music - performances - patches - priceless advice etc etc without charge, as well as earning their crust through paid work in the ''industry''

Through the internet - even more so.

In fact, there are two well known audio companies working hard to establish ''SHARE'' platforms.



but a couple of bloated, self-important douchebags think the suggestion that their '''''''''mastering'''''''''' know-how might be imparted without charge warrants a stern tongue-lashing. As if mastering is somehow worth more in terms of time, and probably money.
Let me tell you something, as a pro, you are a complete FAILURE if you're scraping the barrel for $40. A couple of hobbyists with some mastering plugs think they're mastering engineers all of a sudden. Good for you douchebags, good luck with that, the world will keep turning whatever your 'career' choice. Kindly get the fuck out of this thread, and hustle your $40 somewhere else.

Oh, and another thing. A big LOL to anyone who thinks doing some mickey mouse city & guilds / SAE style courses means a damn thing. You're nothing more than a hackneyed archetype in an industry where talent and only talent prevails. Which would explain why one of you is out of work

dum wrote:
Oh, and another thing. A big LOL to anyone who thinks doing some mickey mouse city & guilds / SAE style courses means a damn thing. You're nothing more than a hackneyed archetype in an industry where talent and only talent prevails.

dont say that. ive bought a lot of gear.
ill kill myself.

hoho,
Worry not wee man.
You're niche is as a rent-boy in the studios of jaded mastering 'engineers'


in other words, leeds will share his unemployment cheque with you - if you share your good loving.

dum wrote:hoho,
Worry not wee man.
You're niche is as a rent-boy in the studios of jaded mastering 'engineers'


in other words, leeds will share his unemployment cheque with you - if you share your good loving.

your a cunt but i like having you around

dum wrote:Why is ''''''''mastering'''''''''' somehow more important than composition, patch creation, performance, consultation, arrangement, etc etc etc

who ever claimed that??

i can't read that anywhere here at all.

Oh, and another thing. A big LOL to anyone who thinks doing some mickey mouse city & guilds / SAE style courses means a damn thing. You're nothing more than a hackneyed archetype in an industry where talent and only talent prevails. Which would explain why one of you is out of work

wrong, talent is unfortunately the one thing you don't need at all in order to make a living...

it's all other aspects you need to bring into the game... talent is nice to have, very nice indeed, but the amount of talented guys having no work is by far greater then the untalented ones having a butt load of work.

dum wrote:In my world I am surrounded by immensely talented individuals with real credibility, experience & skill who tirelessly provide music - performances - patches - priceless advice etc etc without charge, as well as earning their crust through paid work in the ''industry''

This is how it is when you are in U2.