israel attacks gaza bound aid flotilla.

[3dot...]

interesting read..
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/06 ... -info-war/

[UKRuss]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... steve-bell

[caaflex]

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4223683/new- ... o-released

[caaflex]

Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu on Wednesday night, made his first public statement to the nation after the IDF raid on a Gaza-bound flotilla, which left nine activists dead and has wreaked havoc in the international media.

Speaking live to the nation, Netanyahu said, "The State of Israel faces an attack of international hypocrisy. This is not the first time we have faced this, two years ago we faced a massive attack of missiles fired by Hamas who hid behind civilians. Israel went to great lengths to avoid civilian casualties but who did the UN condemn? It condemned Israel."


"Hamas continues to arm. Iran continues to send weapons to Gaza. Iran's rockets are intended to hit Israeli communities, not just in the vicinity of Gaza, but in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem."

"It is our right according to International law to prevent arms smuggling to Gaza and that is why the naval blockade was put in place. The flotilla intended to break the blockade, not to bring in emergency supplies which we allow to reach Gaza"

"If the blockade had been broken, hundreds of ships would have followed, with a scale of smuggling far greater than that possible in the tunnels. Two ships stopped in the last years -Francop and Karine-A - had hundreds of tons of weapons."

"It is our duty to examine any ship going to Gaza - If we don't do this, the result would be an Iranian port in Gaza, only a few dozen kilometers from Tel Aviv, which would also threaten other countries in the region. We offered to take the cargo to Ashdod and examine it, an offer which Egypt seconded. The flotilla leaders rejected this."

"The takeover of five of the ships passed quietly. In the sixth ship, our soldiers encountered an extreme group that supports Hamas terror. This wasn't the "love boat" this was a flotilla of terror supporters."

"I talked to our soldiers, they were shot at. There was an attempt to lynch them.
These are pacifists? The soldiers defended their lives with incomparable restraint.
What would any other country do? At best, they would act in the same way, or much worse."

"Of course we regret the loss of life, but I ask the international community what would you do instead? We'll continue to defend our citizens and assert our right for self defense, which is my first duty as Prime Minister."

"It is important that we stay united on this issue, which is a matter of life and death."

The Karine-A was an Iranian ship carrying arms to Gaza which Israeli troops boarded eight years ago in the Red Sea. The MV Francop was an Iranian arms ship that was boarded off the coast of Cyprus. and was carrying arms to Hizbullah. Another Iranian ship, the Monchegorsk was seized by Cypriot authorities in 2009.

Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu decided on Tuesday that Israel would not prosecute or continue to hold the participants it captured from the Gaza protest flotilla, despite earlier plans to put on trial those who had attacked the soldiers boarding the ships.


http://www.jpost.com/Home/Article.aspx?id=177286


*********************

I don't understand how people can still say the IDF acted out of line. It was obviously a manipulative and provocative act and the activists were seeking out trouble with the IDF.

IDF boarded the flotilla (after multiple requests for a change of course) with paintball guns and pistols in their holsters. They had no intentions on using lethal force until they were attacked and needed to act out of self defense because the activists were taking their pistols from them.

[smutek]

...because Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu said so...

Fixed.

[caaflex]

...because Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu said so...

Fixed.

wow, such intelect. you completely changed my mind and defied all logic with your incredible reasoning.

[smutek]

Actually you're right, that was kind of shallow and dickish of me.

How about I rescind my snarky comment and let's start over?

The conclusions you draw seem, to me at least, to be based entirely on the statement you quoted from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, the man who represents the group with the most to lose from this debacle. That doesn't make sense to me.

Kind of like the folks who believe there were Iraqi WMD's because George Bush said there were. See what I'm saying? This man isn't going to tell the truth, not because he's Israeli, he's not going to tell the truth because he represents a power structure with a vested interest in the outcome of this event.

I don't understand how people can still say the IDF acted out of line. It was obviously a manipulative and provocative act and the activists were seeking out trouble with the IDF.

IDF boarded the flotilla (after multiple requests for a change of course) with paintball guns and pistols in their holsters. They had no intentions on using lethal force until they were attacked and needed to act out of self defense because the activists were taking their pistols from them.

If you base these conclusions entirely on, or somehow intend to reinforce them based on the statement of the Israeli Prime minister I just think, well, it's maybe a little short sighted.

[caaflex]

i could see how you would think that since my comments were in the same post as his address, but i was just posting that to share it and not directly/indirectly commenting on it.

i've watched all the videos i could find, even on the al jazeera website, and everything points to it being a provocative act by a bunch of activists to start trouble with Israel.

There were 6 ships that day, the first 5 all went into port and got checked out with no problems.

The last one, kept on trucking, even after multiple requests to change course and go into port. The activists were yelling out anti-jew chants and completely ignoring the IDF's requests. The IDF then boarded the boat to take control and get it into the port brandishing ONLY paintball guns. They had pistols for security which were kept in their holsters. The activists then attacked the IDF with knives, chains, and metal bars. They even threw one of the IDF soldiers overboard (real peaceful protesters we are talking about here). The activists also took the IDF soldiers pistols and thats when they opened fire and people got killed.

If the IDF soldiers wanted to shoot and kill the activists they could have done it safely without boarding the boat. They easily could have fired from the helicopter if their intentions were shoot to kill, but obviously that's not the case because they raided the boat with only their non lethal weapons out.

The activists on the other hand, had knives, metal bars, chains, and firebombs. Along with the anti jew chants i'd say that's anything but peaceful and compliant.

This is why it gets me so riled up that the international media was spinning this to make it look like Israel ATTACKED (as you see in the thread title) the boat. When in reality, they were performing a very routine procedure because they pull ships into port and clear their contents on a regular basis.

I posted the Prime Minister's address because I feel he made very valid points that people need to pay attention to. They were defending themselves, not attacking, but the media gets a juicier story with their spin on it. The shame is that the majority of people will buy into the media spin right away, with little or no doubt, and even less research into their claims. Just like everyone I have discussed this with today really doesn't even know what happened nor have they read into it, they just know that they condone Israel and that they are the big bad angry violent jews. Which is exactly what the activists sought after when they came up with this idea.

What's even funnier, is that Hamas DENIED the supplies that Israel let through (p://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06/02/isra ... nians.aid/). So this 'aid' that they were sending in such a noble and passionate manner is straight up rejected by the people who it was intended for. So now that it is unwanted aid on a boat full of jew hating (and very vocal about it) activists with hand to hand combat weapons trying to get through a blockade and ignoring multiple requests to change course coming to port and then attacking the IDF soldiers who were trying to peacefully bring the boat in, what is your opinion on it?

[LoopStationZebra]

One of the most insightful things I've read about this incident came from an ex-Navy Seal:

He basically said "The fact that the IDF carried out this mission at night told me all I needed to know about their intent."

Had this been a simple interception in order to maintain the blockade by issuing warnings, it would have been a day mission.

[caaflex]

One of the most insightful things I've read about this incident came from an ex-Navy Seal:

He basically said "The fact that the IDF carried out this mission at night told me all I needed to know about their intent."

Had this been a simple interception in order to maintain the blockade by issuing warnings, it would have been a day mission.

Because it's so much easier to shoot people with paintball guns at night.

It'd be nice if you would do a little more research then getting "all you need to know" from one comment.

[LoopStationZebra]

One of the most insightful things I've read about this incident came from an ex-Navy Seal:

He basically said "The fact that the IDF carried out this mission at night told me all I needed to know about their intent."

Had this been a simple interception in order to maintain the blockade by issuing warnings, it would have been a day mission.

Because it's so much easier to shoot people with paintball guns at night.

It'd be nice if you would do a little more research then getting "all you need to know" from one comment.

Yeah. Wow. Those paint ball guns sure do pack a punch these days.

Oh. Forgot. They had pistols as well.

[3dot...]

LSZ give it a rest.. no army without weapons.. ask you ex-navy seal friend who does takeovers by day

[LoopStationZebra]

@caaflex

Oh, and for the record I actually concur with quite a bit of what you've been saying regarding the 'intentions' of this 'mission of peace'.

But because you're such a cunt I'm just going to have to lie and say you're completely full of shit.

[LoopStationZebra]

LSZ give it a rest.. no army without weapons.. ask you ex-navy seal friend who does takeovers by day

Of course they need weapons. ffs.

You and caaflex are simply not understanding the point of a day vs night mission.

If you've set up a blockade and someone's about to break it, you don't launch a fucking night time helo raid. Paintball guns or no paintball guns. You do what everyone else has done since time immemorial: You position your battleships in front of the oncoming boats and make them stop. What happens next is what happens next. But a night time drop? Yikes. Night time Ops are for kicking ass. Jesus. Don't you ever play Call of Duty?

A completely boneheaded move; well emphasized by the cartoon that UKR posted.

[smutek]

what is your opinion on it?

Well, I don't have a lot of time so I am going to be brief.

First, I'm just too busy to properly research this particular incident right now. Despite this I do have an opinion, which is this -

I'm under no illusion that Israels opponents are angels, however, Israels military and security forces have a shameful history of brutality, aggression, and a lack of regard for innocent life that is well documented and stretches back decades.

This I have researched and as far as I am concerned it is absolutely indisputable.

Because of this, whether or not the flotilla was a calculated move designed to bring pressure and attention on Israel is of little consequence to me.

I can only hope that more progressive elements in Israel (like our friend 3dot...) will eventually prevail because Israel must make peace with, and in some cases amends to, the people it has wronged. I feel it is absolutely vital to their future, their security and their survival as a nation to not only address the grievances of the Palestinian people, but to begin treating them as.... people.

Sorry I can not contribute more at this time, but I did want to leave this bit of a quote written by an inspiring man who is far more eloquent than myself. It was written about 72 years ago, is still quite relevant and sort of sums up how I feel about the issue as a whole.

The same God rules the Arab heart who rules the Jewish heart...

They will find the world opinion in their favor in their religious aspiration. There are hundreds of ways of reasoning with the Arabs, if they will only discard the help of the British bayonet. As it is, they are co-sharers with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them.

I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regarded as an unwarrantable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds.

Let the Jews who claim to be the chosen race prove their title by choosing the way of non-violence for vindicating their position on earth. Every country is their home, including Palestine, not by aggression but by loving service.

That was written by Mahatma Ghandi in 1938. The full text can be found here.