Selling music directly through itunes or through cdbaby?

[Peter Wells]

Of course I'm taking the blog and the posts at face value. Assuming it is the truth though Peter, you haven't addressed what I think are the important points.

1. You state that you're fine if you use all your own property. It seems pretty clear to me that the blogger is. So why didn't they get paid?

Now you are confused because you wrote all the songs, and registered them with the copyright office. Again you argue that it is your music and it is original.
2. Regarding the Billie Jean track. Sure it was stupid and illegal for the poster to sell the track without clearance. But how does TuneCore justify selling the track for profit? And why did TuneCore withhold money from the sale of other tracks?

Hi Ninox. That person took a song by another person, covered it, and did not pay them. iTunes then got a legal notice from the songwriter, they in turn sent TuneCore a legal notice claiming copyright infringement (under the law, TuneCore can now be fined up to $150,000 per willful infringement).

Once this happens, we have to hire our lawyer at over $350 a hour to respond. It's important to remember this person only paid TuneCore $9.99. Because this person took another person's song, covered it and did not pay them, but told TuneCore they did (and we believed him), TuneCore is now possibly going to get sued.

In addition to the legal problems and costs, we have to call up Apple and try to repair the damage that was done: this one person's actions could screw everthing up for every other TuneCore customer.

Here's some question back to the person that stole someone's song:

--Why aren't you reimbursing TuneCore the costs it incurred from you stealing someone else's song and us having to hire a lawyer because you did not tell the truth? We lost hundreds and hundreds of dollars due to you and damaged our relationship with Apple?

--Where's your written an apology to the person whose song you stole? Why haven't you reached out to Apple and to every TuneCore customer and apologized for the damage you have done? Why did you choose to lie and make things up on a blog posting about our company? We are NOT being investigated by the FBI, that's just a flat-out lie. All we did is get caught in the crossfire of you breaking the law.

--Why didn't you read any of our multiple blog postings about copyright, attend any of our free seminars on copyright, download the free PDF booklets on out website about copyright (http://www.tunecore.com/guides) or, at the very least, learn something on your own? You certainly must have known you can't steal someone else's song and just sell it. You're in the music business now, learn how it works, and learn how the law works.

As for us, we did what we are required to do: we reached out to the customer, told them what went down, and told them to wait for the legal issue to resolve itself. Then we hand the money over to the legal entity that has the rights (we cannot and DO NOT keep it).

Instead, this person didn't like what he heard, wanted the money he got from selling stolen property, and did everything he could to get it. He made up stuff on his blog and would rather stick his head in the sand about his own liability, blame it on us, than do the right thing. And he's putting iTunes, TuneCore and every TuneCore artist and label in jeopardy.

If you really want to see the sort of crazy stuff we have to deal with, check this out - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z18IySGxcx

If this person and others like him want to apologize to TuneCore or our artists, they can write me. I'm here, we've always been here. We do everything we can to help people, make sure they don't accidentally misuse material, infringe copyright, or make any other missteps. But if they do, and they want to slag us over it, they're in the wrong.

--Peter
[email protected]

[Miki_Mundi]

[/quote]
Watch some episodes of desperate housewives to get in character[/quote]

he he he, thats the easy one, few effects and it'll be just like the real thing, the hard one is going to be Michael Caine in The Prestige "Every Magic trick consists of 3 parts...."

[beats me]

Of course I'm taking the blog and the posts at face value. Assuming it is the truth though Peter, you haven't addressed what I think are the important points.

1. You state that you're fine if you use all your own property. It seems pretty clear to me that the blogger is. So why didn't they get paid?

Now you are confused because you wrote all the songs, and registered them with the copyright office. Again you argue that it is your music and it is original.
2. Regarding the Billie Jean track. Sure it was stupid and illegal for the poster to sell the track without clearance. But how does TuneCore justify selling the track for profit? And why did TuneCore withhold money from the sale of other tracks?

Hi Ninox. That person took a song by another person, covered it, and did not pay them. iTunes then got a legal notice from the songwriter, they in turn sent TuneCore a legal notice claiming copyright infringement (under the law, TuneCore can now be fined up to $150,000 per willful infringement).

Once this happens, we have to hire our lawyer at over $350 a hour to respond. It's important to remember this person only paid TuneCore $9.99. Because this person took another person's song, covered it and did not pay them, but told TuneCore they did (and we believed him), TuneCore is now possibly going to get sued.

In addition to the legal problems and costs, we have to call up Apple and try to repair the damage that was done: this one person's actions could screw everthing up for every other TuneCore customer.

Here's some question back to the person that stole someone's song:

--Why aren't you reimbursing TuneCore the costs it incurred from you stealing someone else's song and us having to hire a lawyer because you did not tell the truth? We lost hundreds and hundreds of dollars due to you and damaged our relationship with Apple?

--Where's your written an apology to the person whose song you stole? Why haven't you reached out to Apple and to every TuneCore customer and apologized for the damage you have done? Why did you choose to lie and make things up on a blog posting about our company? We are NOT being investigated by the FBI, that's just a flat-out lie. All we did is get caught in the crossfire of you breaking the law.

--Why didn't you read any of our multiple blog postings about copyright, attend any of our free seminars on copyright, download the free PDF booklets on out website about copyright (http://www.tunecore.com/guides) or, at the very least, learn something on your own? You certainly must have known you can't steal someone else's song and just sell it. You're in the music business now, learn how it works, and learn how the law works.

As for us, we did what we are required to do: we reached out to the customer, told them what went down, and told them to wait for the legal issue to resolve itself. Then we hand the money over to the legal entity that has the rights (we cannot and DO NOT keep it).

Instead, this person didn't like what he heard, wanted the money he got from selling stolen property, and did everything he could to get it. He made up stuff on his blog and would rather stick his head in the sand about his own liability, blame it on us, than do the right thing. And he's putting iTunes, TuneCore and every TuneCore artist and label in jeopardy.

If you really want to see the sort of crazy stuff we have to deal with, check this out - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z18IySGxcx

If this person and others like him want to apologize to TuneCore or our artists, they can write me. I'm here, we've always been here. We do everything we can to help people, make sure they don't accidentally misuse material, infringe copyright, or make any other missteps. But if they do, and they want to slag us over it, they're in the wrong.

--Peter
[email protected]

Good post.

I have a technology question for you. With phone apps like Shazam and SoundHound you can hold your phone up to a speaker and within seconds it will tell you what the song is and by who. I'm wondering if there is some kind of programing variance that can be made for sites like yours that when somebody uploads a cover that sounds close to the original song some kind of pop-up will happen that says "We've detected that this song is or is a cover of ***** by *****. Is this true and do you have legal ownership or permission to post this song?" And by agreeing to that statement that would put legal responsibility completely on the artist.

That may be out of your area of expertise but I'm sure would be great for everybody involved....except lying artists.

[Peter Wells]

Good post.

I have a technology question for you. With phone apps like Shazam and SoundHound you can hold your phone up to a speaker and within seconds it will tell you what the song is and by who. I'm wondering if there is some kind of programing variance that can be made for sites like yours that when somebody uploads a cover that sounds close to the original song some kind of pop-up will happen that says "We've detected that this song is or is a cover of ***** by *****. Is this true and do you have legal ownership or permission to post this song?" And by agreeing to that statement that would put legal responsibility completely on the artist.

That may be out of your area of expertise but I'm sure would be great for everybody involved....except lying artists.

Wow. That would be mighty difficult to do. It would basically require something closer to strong AI than exists right now. Remember how wildly something can be differently covered.

Whoever invents that is going to be rich. Publishing is a $9 billion a year business!

--Peter
[email protected]

[beats me]

Good post.

I have a technology question for you. With phone apps like Shazam and SoundHound you can hold your phone up to a speaker and within seconds it will tell you what the song is and by who. I'm wondering if there is some kind of programing variance that can be made for sites like yours that when somebody uploads a cover that sounds close to the original song some kind of pop-up will happen that says "We've detected that this song is or is a cover of ***** by *****. Is this true and do you have legal ownership or permission to post this song?" And by agreeing to that statement that would put legal responsibility completely on the artist.

That may be out of your area of expertise but I'm sure would be great for everybody involved....except lying artists.

Wow. That would be mighty difficult to do. It would basically require something closer to strong AI than exists right now. Remember how wildly something can be differently covered.

Whoever invents that is going to be rich. Publishing is a $9 billion a year business!

--Peter
[email protected]

Yeah, the existing alien technology that is behind IDing tracks has me completely baffled.

How about instead you add something that will produce a pop-up that says something like "Analysis of your waveform has revealed the contents and techniques used in your track have already been done to death, the track will be forgotten in 2 months, and is valued at $0.53 tops over the next 20 years."

AI feedback should be fun.

[condra]

Necro bump and a subscription for a very informative thread.

Peter, if you're still around, why would Beatport allow tracks from Rebeat but not CD-Baby or Tunecore?
I am of course assuming that quality control is the issue Beatport would have with "self publishing" services.

Is it likely that Tunecore tracks will apear on Beatport or DJ Download in the near future?
Perhaps with a small extra fee, comission, or some level of quality control.
If you ever did get in bed with Beatport, a special electronic music orientated Tunecore membership would be very enticing IMO, even if it was simply the standard membership with some bells and whistles.

This is what I've read elsewhere: (djtechtools forum)

“Robert at REBEAT explained to me that the material that they send through to Beatport goes through a selection process to make sure that it is appropriate for Beatport – i.e. It’s not a reggae/pop/rock ballad for instance.
He said there is an 85% success rate for getting stuff onto Beatport.”

So there you go. With Rebeat, you have a possible, but not guaranteed, avenue into Beatport’s store.

I would imagine as long as Rebeat is getting tracks on Beatport, it will have the edge over Tunecore, at least for electronic musicians, which is a shame, because frankly, Rebeats website/branding/ all kinda suck.

PS- I've been reading bits and pieces about self-publishing and your name springs up a lot, while I've not seen much from anyone at CD-Baby or REBEAT.
I really like your personal touch. I hope it works out for you.

[Peter Wells]

It's a question of philosophy, really. You're right, Beatport's selection is the stumbling block: we won't distribute to a store that reserves the right to refuse content on aesthetic grounds. It wouldn't be fair to our artists to offer a store, then have to go back to them and say, "Sorry, the store rejected you." The whole point of TuneCore is to remove barriers to entry, to let the world decide what's good or not. I hope Beatport changes their process, honestly.

--Peter

[condra]

Thanks for the hyperquick reply!

I think the Rebeat+Beatport thing is going to be a deal breaker for a lot of dance music artists.