Automation delay blabla, has it been fixed?

[fisto]

I think that one doesnt need a wave-editor in reaper as the arrangemet is a big waveditor . With one click i have the the clip over the whole
monitor and can edit really fine, even finer than in Live. And now in reaper 4 you can even see multiple midiclips in one midieditor and switch between them on the fly .
Also reaper is not that kind of daw which gives 100s of Stupid bells & whistle-sounds.It's an highly customizable audiowork-enviorenment, thats what i want from a programm. I have my own synths which i use and like and thats good for me.
I don't think that the muddiness is because of my interface as there is none in reaper.

One point which is badly missn in Live are keybindable functions, and they advertise it as THE workflow, really bad.

[jtdj]

I think that one doesnt need a wave-editor in reaper as the arrangemet is a big waveditor . With one click i have the the clip over the whole
monitor and can edit really fine, even finer than in Live. And now in reaper 4 you can even see multiple midiclips in one midieditor and switch between them on the fly .
Also reaper is not that kind of daw which gives 100s of Stupid bells & whistle-sounds.It's an highly customizable audiowork-enviorenment, thats what i want from a programm. I have my own synths which i use and like and thats good for me.
I don't think that the muddiness is because of my interface as there is none in reaper.

One point which is badly missn in Live are keybindable functions, and they advertise it as THE workflow, really bad.

fair enough, im still thinkin hard bout splashin out for the new Pro Tools and have Ableton rewired into it. Lot of money though but would help when working with bands at studio's and the like.

[fisto]

Ah, and very important: Reaper has per-clip fx(just drag and drop and automate) and an Lfo for every parameter and you can sidechain EVERY parameter to ANY signal

cool ha?

[fisto]

Yeah, why not . PT9 is really affordable now and i think that after you have got used to it, you will defnetely be faster and maye your stuff will sound better like it was in my case. But still i would suggest that you try reaper, it has everything that PT has (even a special PT-theme for the PT-look) and even more. Of course that is personal prference but quite a lot of people in the reaper forum say that they switched fom PT to reaper and they like it a lot, and it's only 40 €

[macmurphy]

maybe cause you don't use vsts?

ha yeah just think of the money i could have saved if i didn't use vsts..

i could have saved up for a mac and be using logic

build the layout of a track (make scenes and play them over to arrangement) and thn export everything and finish in Reaper. I have the feeling that the more tracks you have in Live, the muddier it sounds, although I use the same plugins as i use in Reaper and there the tune does not sound muddier and muddier. Also after importing the tracks from
Live into reaper the tune immediately sounds clearer, i really
don't know why, but i can hear it.

i tried this recently. fisto, have you heard of the placebo affect? there was, i my experience, absolutely no difference when i tried this.

[fisto]

Haha, of course i know about the placebo effect. But i have to judge by my ears and my feeling and when my ears tell me that it sounds better in reaper then i have to follow them

[macmurphy]

Haha, of course i know about the placebo effect. But i have to judge by my ears and my feeling and when my ears tell me that it sounds better in reaper then i have to follow them

fair enough

[fx23]

@marmurphy yeah lol, same here, spend 3K$ in vsts i don't even use anymore, despite they are splendid.
all my TC powercore6K plugins are high latency wich make
then un-automable with live pdc. plus poco is discontinued now. arf

jtdj wroteCant say Iv ever noticed Live getting more muddier the more tracks i add, maybe an issue with ur soundcard/interface?

this has nothing to do with audio card. It's becaue of PDC. each time you add a plug on a track,
the played back modulations shift a bit more from their original position.the more you add tracks and plugz, the more there are process inducing latencies, the more relative drifting occurs, resulting in possible untight muddy and out of sync audio.

the new PT has latency automation compensation, but rewiring live into it won't corect the pbs imo, as modulations handled
by clips won't be compensated by live, exept if you put the plugins and automate all in PT, live beeing then just used as a midi session/ big sampler, wich reduce a lot it's possibilities and it loose the ability to have per clips automations system,
to swich rack chains over time ect. only good for linear type editing or final mixdown/mastering.
ive once considered the same but i think using 2 daws is quite a pain. im already using 2 (usine+live), so a 3rd one would be
a bit of more headaches...

they just have to :ù;**!!**m$: sort this out and bring autom to session and the world would be so beautiful

[jtdj]

this has nothing to do with audio card. It's becaue of PDC. each time you add a plug on a track,
the played back modulations shift a bit more from their original position.the more you add tracks and plugz, the more there are process inducing latencies, the more relative drifting occurs, resulting in possible untight muddy and out of sync audio.

But if there wasnt any issues with a project and PDC, or they had been manually corrected then having a project with lots of tracks wouldnt cause any 'muddiness' at all would it?

[glenn303]

I think fisto must work for Reaper.

[fx23]

But if there wasnt any issues with a project and PDC, or they had been manually corrected then having a project with lots of tracks wouldnt cause any 'muddiness' at all would it?

here is my often pbs, a basic scenario :

let's say you make a track with 50 clips. you put an VST_01 with low latency on it. you want to automate the parameter X for each clip in order to make cool building blocs. So here we go: 1) you draw like a bs your modulations (as you can't rec them) on your 50 clips. ok cool. they are all in sync with the grid. the result is not bad but youdlike to process audio with another VST.
so you figure you want to add/need a VST_02 (wich has high latency) BEFORE VST_01 in the audio path.
if you add it, ALL the 50 modulations you just drawn are messed. the audio result is clearly muddy and out of sync.

So what are the solutions?
A) go back in each 50 CVs and manually roll them each time : considered as IMPOSSIBLE for N modulations on N clips for N tracks for N chain changes. unless you will spend your time on that, and loose the snap on grid.

B) render as Audio the insert point behind high latency plug: Not friendly, huge disk space, not modular, can't get back.
disable any possible pre and post -FX modulations possibilities as the path is flaten before this point. ie what if you have an instrument rack that changes, folowed by the FX. freeze don't work with sidechain also. what if you use random or very long
sequences pre_fx, have to reder tons and tons of no_modular wavs.

So usually users stick with the shitty offset or don't use VSTs. the more tracks and plugs, the more this is likely to
happen. do ya get it?

[jtdj]

But if there wasnt any issues with a project and PDC, or they had been manually corrected then having a project with lots of tracks wouldnt cause any 'muddiness' at all would it?

here is my often pbs, a basic scenario :

let's say you make a track with 50 clips. you put an VST_01 with low latency on it. you want to automate the parameter X for each clip in order to make cool building blocs. So here we go: 1) you draw like a bs your modulations (as you can't rec them) on your 50 clips. ok cool. they are all in sync with the grid. the result is not bad but youdlike to process audio with another VST.
so you figure you want to add/need a VST_02 (wich has high latency) BEFORE VST_01 in the audio path.
if you add it, ALL the 50 modulations you just drawn are messed. the audio result is clearly muddy and out of sync.

So what are the solutions?
A) go back in each 50 CVs and manually roll them each time : considered as IMPOSSIBLE for N modulations on N clips for N tracks for N chain changes. unless you will spend your time on that, and loose the snap on grid.

B) render as Audio the insert point behind high latency plug: Not friendly, huge disk space, not modular, can't get back.
disable any possible pre and post -FX modulations possibilities as the path is flaten before this point. ie what if you have an instrument rack that changes, folowed by the FX. freeze don't work with sidechain also. what if you use random or very long
sequences pre_fx, have to reder tons and tons of no_modular wavs.

So usually users stick with the shitty offset or don't use VSTs. the more tracks and plugs, the more this is likely to
happen. do ya get it?

i already got it, its a pain, but if u know its gonna happen then you should be able to sort it as you go along. But this is the very reason I'm gonna buy Pro Tools at the end of this month, cant be done with problems like that and their has been no word that it will be fixed in Live 9 so its time to move on.

[fisto]

I think fisto must work for Reaper.

good one, but nope

"You can point the people to the right path, but go they must alone"

[fisto]

hey JTDJ, good decision
I bet you will be a happier guy and a better engineer after a 2 to 3 month-usage of PT

[jtdj]

hey JTDJ, good decision
I bet you will be a happier guy and a better engineer after a 2 to 3 month-usage of PT

yeah, will be a pain learning the functions and shortcuts but like you say it will be worth it.