Ableton Forum

I buy the Kottonmouth Kings CD'S. Reason is,they usually throw in a DVD that shows some cool footage n shit.

memes_33 wrote: and anyone still bitching about digital music sharing in this day in age should wake up.

by digital music sharing you mean stealing , yeah? like pirating software/games/films?

macmurphy wrote:

memes_33 wrote: and anyone still bitching about digital music sharing in this day in age should wake up.

by digital music sharing you mean stealing , yeah? like pirating software/games/films?

i also want to know what they should wake up to.
not that i am not guilty of "stealing" music.
i have been "stealing" music since i was a kid when i would make mix tapes from my friends tapes.
if you have ever made a mix tape you are also guilty of "stealing". so cast the first stone.

also if you have sampled some ones music you have "stole"
if you played a cover at a show you have and not payed royalty's you have "stole"
if you have dj'd and played other peoples songs and not payed royalty's you have "stole"

no one here is not guilty of stealing music under the current ridiculous laws currently set up.

nathannn wrote: i also want to know what they should wake up to.

that stealing is ok?

i don't know. sharing music among friends is one thing, but downloading music anonymously from the web
just seems weak and disrespectful to me. It's really no different at all to downloading cracked software etc.

macmurphy wrote:

nathannn wrote: i also want to know what they should wake up to.

that stealing is ok?

i don't know. sharing music among friends is one thing, but downloading music anonymously from the web
just seems weak and disrespectful to me. It's really no different at all to downloading cracked software etc.

Sometimes you can’t buy music even when you want to, can’t find it from the usual sources or can’t buy it because of regional restrictions. In that case you tried and I have no issue with ripping it from something like youtube if it’s there.

yes, i am talking about "stealing" music. i don't think the old model of music distribution applies anymore. whether anyone thinks that's fair or not is moot. musicians (as well as artists in other mediums affected by the digital revolution) are going to learn they can't rely on "album sales" as a dependable source of income. anything that is digital will be copied aka "stolen".

i personally don't steal software, but that's probably cuz its a pain in the ass and would rather have a few VSTs i know i like and know how to use. i do belong to a music usergroup that i download a ton of free music from, but, honestly, its introduced me to new artists i never would have heard before, many of whom i've bought their music as a result of originally anonymously downloading their shit.

memes_33 wrote:yes, i am talking about "stealing" music.

i stopped reading right there.

nathannn wrote:

macmurphy wrote:

memes_33 wrote: and anyone still bitching about digital music sharing in this day in age should wake up.

by digital music sharing you mean stealing , yeah? like pirating software/games/films?

i also want to know what they should wake up to.
not that i am not guilty of "stealing" music.
i have been "stealing" music since i was a kid when i would make mix tapes from my friends tapes.
if you have ever made a mix tape you are also guilty of "stealing". so cast the first stone.

also if you have sampled some ones music you have "stole"
if you played a cover at a show you have and not payed royalty's you have "stole"
if you have dj'd and played other peoples songs and not payed royalty's you have "stole"

no one here is not guilty of stealing music under the current ridiculous laws currently set up.

This is incorrect, reference "Performance Rights" for further study.

Moody wrote: This is incorrect, reference "Performance Rights" for further study.

nope, actually even to play a cover song, ASCAP or BMI expects to get money for performance rights.

if you play, cover, or re-distribute any music that you do not own rights to in a public place where money is being made, you are breaking the law (in the US, at least). when bars have jukeboxes, they pay ASCAP & BMI a portion of money. when bars have TVs, they are charged more for cable to pay for rights to show it in a bar. when a venue has live music, they pay a performance rights organization to cover their ass if anyone plays cover songs.

what the law says and what's actually enforced are different things, but in copyright laws eyes, if you have dj'ed before in any setting where there is money being exchanged, you are "stealing" music.

memes_33 wrote:

Moody wrote: This is incorrect, reference "Performance Rights" for further study.

nope, actually even to play a cover song, ASCAP or BMI expects to get money for performance rights.

if you play, cover, or re-distribute any music that you do not own rights to in a public place where money is being made, you are breaking the law (in the US, at least). when bars have jukeboxes, they pay ASCAP & BMI a portion of money. when bars have TVs, they are charged more for cable to pay for rights to show it in a bar. when a venue has live music, they pay a performance rights organization to cover their ass if anyone plays cover songs.

what the law says and what's actually enforced are different things, but in copyright laws eyes, if you have dj'ed before in any setting where there is money being exchanged, you are "stealing" music.

Hmm... this is in contrast to how I understood performance rights. Thanks for the insight... I guess we are all thieves. Forgive my intrusion to the conversation.

I just bought a CD two days ago, from an artist I always admired, at his concert. So it was a special personal experience, I got an autograph, a little chat ... I didn't even care much what the CD cost on the street. It would have been probably 75% off on Amazon, or 100% on P2P, but that's beyond the point.

The key was the special experience. Whether I buy the music on a CD as a download or etched into a coconut through that special experience is not that important. Why, I heard even vinyl sales are climbing.

memes_33 wrote:

Moody wrote: This is incorrect, reference "Performance Rights" for further study.

nope, actually even to play a cover song, ASCAP or BMI expects to get money for performance rights.

if you play, cover, or re-distribute any music that you do not own rights to in a public place where money is being made, you are breaking the law (in the US, at least). when bars have jukeboxes, they pay ASCAP & BMI a portion of money. when bars have TVs, they are charged more for cable to pay for rights to show it in a bar. when a venue has live music, they pay a performance rights organization to cover their ass if anyone plays cover songs.

what the law says and what's actually enforced are different things, but in copyright laws eyes, if you have dj'ed before in any setting where there is money being exchanged, you are "stealing" music.

NPR's Planet Money podcast had a great episode on this. The way it works is ASCAP/BMI have methods they use to guess at what's being played & how much, then some poor saps have to drive around and try to pester establishments into paying so that Willie Nelson can put his grandkids through college. When you play a cover, the bar or club pays for having music performed, not you. It's a highly inefficient system.

^ Same with a jukebox or a dj. The establishments they manage to contact are kinda guilt tripped into paying, and a surprising number of people eventually do pay up. ASCAP & BMI don't prosecute people.

I don't buy CD's, haven't for years. I buy downloads if it's convenient. Most artists would rather have someone steal a song than not listen to it. Obviously I try to support people and in that way I'm voting with my dollars the way people always have. I'd have no problem stealing a downloaded song from someone who's filthy rich or blowing up enough that they don't need my money though. Make your own ethical decisions, pay what you can, when you can, and do what you feel is right.

This makes me think of something, artists who nowadays aren't coming up in the old mad money, all or nothing system. It's all small niches and people make a living off shows and t shirts. Now, the arts have always had a model where rich people donate to the opera, ballet, museum etc. and keep them going so everyone else can enjoy the arts. Maybe it's the same with music, college kids go to the shows and buy the shirts with their parents money, and everyone else benefits, downloading for free a lot of the time, as the lucky musicians don't starve. Just a thought. Gotta get off the Internet.

anybody human wrote:NPR's Planet Money podcast had a great episode on this. The way it works is ASCAP/BMI have methods they use to guess at what's being played & how much, then some poor saps have to drive around and try to pester establishments into paying so that Willie Nelson can put his grandkids through college. When you play a cover, the bar or club pays for having music performed, not you. It's a highly inefficient system.

I agree. this system is absolute junk.
I was organizing my own show but the venue said I had to pay for a licence.. even if I was playing original music. What the heck?! ASCAP has never given me a penny.