Ableton Forum

3dot... wrote:the reason?? is either because of development costs of the hardware..
or a priority of Novation/Akai..wanting to be able to(n) sell it to different markets other than Live users..
either way..

Ableton will be better off having total control over it's dedicated HW ..
perfecting the UI..
(even have their own take on phone and pad remote apps..the 'edge' is theirs after all)
in order to be in full control of the 'user experience'..
by now .. they must have acknowledged that this is gonna be necessary for them to stay on top..

NI have traktor and their native DJ controller traktor kontroll. They are their professional products line(their flagship). This product line never die because it isn't much affected by the transitory trend. Stable source of sales. As for the easy-stepsequencer with its dedicated midi controller, it's not actually for mainly professional. It's rather for consumer product line though they don't clealy mention it. This product line doen't provide sustainable income but generates quite a few sales temporarily.
This kind of strategy is common in business.

As to the Ableton I don't think they would try to make Live as transitory trendy product but flagship product that isnt't regimented into one type of hardware. They've been got their reputation by keeping Live flexible tranparent software. Not by molding it into a style/hardware.

NF wrote:Also a short updateplan with fast growing version numbers shows me that the user is a beta tester and that the concept behind is beaten up every time to create a new version.

Did I hear someone say Cubase?

^^^

Ableton launches hardware controllers; now almost a year later the Propellerheads suddenly do the same thing, as does Steinberg. Though not as complete as Ableton does (IMO) but one has to wonder; companies don't start new developments just because for the fun of it. The main idea is generating some kind of revenue (even publicity can be considered as such mind you).

well not really..
PH came out with a soundcard not a controller...
NI were the real pioneers .. and if you want to go further back.. DigiDesign..

Ableton made a giant move with Live8... I think it was their most feature rich update ever..that is true
maybe they took on too much?
I might rationalize that Live8 was a version built to show where Live is heading...
(the Max/Ableton collaboration is the most important move imo..)
and maybe raising funds to help expand and get it there.. winVista>>>win7 style..
in the meantime leanback and see what other forces in the market do..
Live has been in dire need of an overhaul.. with all the features added..
I dunno ..speculations..

it used to be that Abelton was heaps ahead of the pack.. (in the software realm)
feels like other companies are closing in..
but I'm sure they are cooking up something very nice ..
and the Max6 teaser shows good things..

human interaction is gonna be a big part in the years to come...
I fully expect to be patching in max with an ipad...somewheres in the coming 5 years..
(controlling Live remotely from your living room is already possible..
it's beginning to feel awkward sitting with a mouse ..glued to the chair..

Lives' 1 window philosophy was great for the laptop era..
but we're gonna see more and more of these "touch" monitors on stage I think..
'detaching' parts of the main window is gonna be necessary.. corny..but useful..
even with the zoom function.. Lives' racks are cumbersome to navigate
(let alone with your fingers/touchscreen)
it also goes against their original minimal aesthetics.. no excessive submenus and direct interaction..
I mean...I use racks A LOT.. and they could use some spicing up..
(they are well contained..
but if only we could pull up the 'device view' and see the chains graphically in parallel..)

that said... I have a feeling L9 will be great! just give it to us when it's ready.. no pressure..

pencilrocket wrote: As to the Ableton I don't think they would try to make Live as transitory trendy product but flagship product that isnt't regimented into one type of hardware. They've been got their reputation by keeping Live flexible tranparent software. Not by molding it into a style/hardware.

I disagree..
I believe they did mold Live..(design wise..)
into a very specific mold
(leaving it open for interaction.. via api/m4l/midi ..)

Live is built as an instrument first..DAW later..
an elaborate sampler turned DAW..

today it's a powerhouse synth and sample workstation that still feels like an instrument..
or at least a pretty consistent 'environment'..

and let's face it.. you can go so far with midi controllers..
and there are already a big big selection of those midi controllers in any shape form or color..
so much that the market revenues for each controller line are getting smaller..tough market..
and the Niche market is getting bigger..
people want the controller designer to have a specific DAW/workflow in mind

people are saying :
"well hey.. if I need to think up this elaborate MIDI scheme.. why don't I go all the way and build a custom controller "

if Live has confidence in it's user-base.. it should bring out a (truly) dedicated controller/s..
dedicated=better interaction always..
but they've been known to 'outsource' a lot ..so maybe just design it? Robert ?

you don't have to buy it when it comes out..

why are people STILL discussing this like it was meant to be serious?

I agree.

Dont worry, only the best go out of biz young.

I predict some kind of announcement for some version for mobile/tablets. they have to be working on something big

3dot... wrote:^^^

Ableton launches hardware controllers; now almost a year later the Propellerheads suddenly do the same thing, as does Steinberg. Though not as complete as Ableton does (IMO) but one has to wonder; companies don't start new developments just because for the fun of it. The main idea is generating some kind of revenue (even publicity can be considered as such mind you).

well not really..
PH came out with a soundcard not a controller...
NI were the real pioneers .. and if you want to go further back.. DigiDesign..

Ableton made a giant move with Live8... I think it was their most feature rich update ever..that is true
maybe they took on too much?
I might rationalize that Live8 was a version built to show where Live is heading...
(the Max/Ableton collaboration is the most important move imo..)
and maybe raising funds to help expand and get it there.. winVista>>>win7 style..
in the meantime leanback and see what other forces in the market do..
Live has been in dire need of an overhaul.. with all the features added..
I dunno ..speculations..

it used to be that Abelton was heaps ahead of the pack.. (in the software realm)
feels like other companies are closing in..
but I'm sure they are cooking up something very nice ..
and the Max6 teaser shows good things..

human interaction is gonna be a big part in the years to come...
I fully expect to be patching in max with an ipad...somewheres in the coming 5 years..
(controlling Live remotely from your living room is already possible..
it's beginning to feel awkward sitting with a mouse ..glued to the chair..

Lives' 1 window philosophy was great for the laptop era..
but we're gonna see more and more of these "touch" monitors on stage I think..
'detaching' parts of the main window is gonna be necessary.. corny..but useful..
even with the zoom function.. Lives' racks are cumbersome to navigate
(let alone with your fingers/touchscreen)
it also goes against their original minimal aesthetics.. no excessive submenus and direct interaction..
I mean...I use racks A LOT.. and they could use some spicing up..
(they are well contained..
but if only we could pull up the 'device view' and see the chains graphically in parallel..)

that said... I have a feeling L9 will be great! just give it to us when it's ready.. no pressure..

Nice post, 3dot. I hope you are right!

Also hoping for a true streamlined ableton controller: in the corners and sides mirror the software interface. Toggle Session/Arrange, open/hide mixer and sends right side, full transport on top, open/close browser left side, and so on. Knobs on strips/line with faders, like every audio mixer.

I'm far less interested in programming Live from the living room with an iFad and max patching than I am in Live STEPPING UP WITH PROPER DAW FEATURES.

I don't use other DAWs but from what I hear Live's Arrange view compared to other DAWs is a joke, for example.

to hell with the gadgetry, get the basics down.

as it is now I can use it just fine, I just know there's basic stuff other DAWs have that Live lacks.

why do you care?

the software is great.

if they upgrad it it will probably not work any more

make hay while the sun shines...

in that case don't upgrade to Live 9, some people are at 7 and earlier and loving it.

Tone Deft wrote:I'm far less interested in programming Live from the living room with an iFad and max patching than I am in Live STEPPING UP WITH PROPER DAW FEATURES.

I don't use other DAWs but from what I hear Live's Arrange view compared to other DAWs is a joke, for example.

to hell with the gadgetry, get the basics down.

as it is now I can use it just fine, I just know there's basic stuff other DAWs have that Live lacks.

^ This.

I LOVE Live. If it didn't ever get updated beyond version 8 i would still use it until compatibility issues rendered it obsolete over time.. for me personally it has seen off many more traditionally feature rich DAWs as it suits me better but it also has its flaws and things can always be improved. I'm sure the Abletons have something up there sleeves, no doubt.. and in the meantime, we make music

This forum makes outsiders of a company to insiders? No! This thread is yet another senseless one. What the f+++ has this question to do with music production? Nothing!

The right question should be: Do you think the Ableton forum is getting more and more filled by stupid off topic questions?

The best thing would be, to have just access to this forum if you own a real license. Since over 2 years nearly 70% of all posts here are have nothing to do with Live or related stuff. I like to share knowledge with creative people.

So try to post such spam-a-like shit at Gearslutz and you will be banned 4 sho! The Abes should clear the whole forum & do a lot more restricted administration here.

peace
T

Tone Deft wrote:I'm far less interested in programming Live from the living room with an iFad and max patching than I am in Live STEPPING UP WITH PROPER DAW FEATURES.

I don't use other DAWs but from what I hear Live's Arrange view compared to other DAWs is a joke, for example.

to hell with the gadgetry, get the basics down.

as it is now I can use it just fine, I just know there's basic stuff other DAWs have that Live lacks.

Right on! and to add, seems to me like a lot of Ableton's problems with buggy software started when Max was introduced.