Ableton Forum

9V wrote:

shadx312 wrote:It wasn't what you were saying that was the problem, it's the obsessiveness. Take a break and find something else to do for awhile. Go out in the woods, punch a tree a cry it off. If nothing else works, maybe talk to someone and find out what the real problem is.

These are the kind of "answers" i am expecting from fanboys, not from a serious music software brand called "propellerhead". You, as a fanboy, can even tell me "hey, you are a nut, obsessive" etc. Infact if you are a fanboy, i can justify your blindness or you thinking about yourself "wow, i am a cool one, he is a nerd, he needs pussy" and all this crap. The problem is PROPELLERHEAD, not your fanboysm. Instead of keeping a serious behaviour with discontent PAYING, LICENSE OWNERS users, they treat them like "complexed people", nerd teenagers, web trolls etc. They pretend to use the "cool young language" (LOL). I know this kind of "policy", they are not the only one acting like this. I asked them technical issues, they replied I need to take a walk under the sunshine (??!!). Or they talk about "trollism" (???!!) which, as an aged man, did not even know what it meant! I wonder how people dare to be so unrespectable (apart fanboys). So, don't worry about my personality, personal problems, obsessiveness etc. It is not your business, after all. Think of your fanboysm, for now.

Here you say "the problem is PROPELLERHEAD".

jestermgee wrote:How about just switching over to Ableton for good and leave reason in the dust...

Obviously they haven't had VST support ever with no clear intention of adding it so seems logical that if this is their attitude with their software then finish doing business and move to something better.

Really, all this hassle must be making it difficult to make music... And isn't that what it's all about? You said it yourself

Please feel free though to kick on with your crusade though as I am taking a break from production to raise my kids for a bit and I need a bit of entertainment.

In a few years Reason will have VST support as well, prolly the reason they got agitated by 9V remarks. LOL>

my car doesn't go fast enough, also - it is a van.
I have written to the manufacturers several thousand times to complain and yet they do NOTHING !
In fact they asked me to stop sending them letters, saying I was "Obviously a bit mad"
it is an outrage against free speech and I am a slave.

Yes but in a few years Live will be at version 10 and be super stable and will be able to just load all other DAWs as plugins..... In a few years

Angstrom wrote:my car doesn't go fast enough, also - it is a van.
I have written to the manufacturers several thousand times to complain and yet they do NOTHING !
In fact they asked me to stop sending them letters, saying I was "Obviously a bit mad"
it is an outrage against free speech and I am a slave.

if this is true do you know what you need to do?

you need to go to the manufacturer of rubber made and bitch on their forums.
i would not put up with my vancar manufacturer asking me to stop sending ridiculous letters.
they should read every letter about the fictional vancar and provide you an even better vehicle!!!
i know a lawyer that could get you a boatbus out of this.

Oof, almost threw more gas on the fire.

jestermgee wrote:Yes but in a few years Live will be at version 10 and be super stable and will be able to just load all other DAWs as plugins..... In a few years :D

No need to wait, Reason or Record work perfectly as external instrument.
Seems like Propellerheads have some direction problems, lots of pissed users, though most take it in more relaxed way.
They introduced new product called Record which has some brilliant features - mixer modeled on SSL and fantastic stretch algo which compliments perfectly Lives warping. The problem is the name was too generic (find it in Google....) and nobody except Reason users was buying it anyway (standalone didn't have any Reason instruments just cheesy generic QT or Microsoft GM "quality").
So they decided to drop the Record and integrate it with Reason. Another move that will probably backfire. The Reasons synths, except Thor are dated and can't match any contemporary VSTs but are CPU light making it ideal for stage use. However the next version-Record/Reason fused will have their terrible dongle. You can't use iLok, just their own which is sleek looking but silly idea making it out of metal. Droped from table, stand etc it splits apart, which happened to many users. Anyway stage use and dongles.... no thank you. The dumb application has no end here unlike Live that you can run from anything in emergency, ext disc, install it form CD on any computer and do a show with demo, Propellerheads decided to go against the current and any common sense and their demo mode let you save but you cant open anything without dongle or live internet activation. Till now it wasn't a problem because musicians used the dongled Record(Reason in studio and could run regular Reason without dongle. That will end with new version, and for lots of musician end the using Reason on stage (you can't have elder version installed on same computer). I liked using Reason as instrument rack for stage too. Might or might not upgrade it but will most definitely abandon using it on stage.
On top of all that Propellerheads repeated one time Ableton mistake of pricing upgrade €=$, which irritated a lot of people not because of few bucks difference but the principle. No to mention that non Euro zone countries are expected to pay in Euros and not $. To make it worse some of their stuff tried to "explain" that it is due to taxation, dumb move supposing that musicians have no clue about taxes, those lame excuses pissed a lot of people, and no even lame explanation why non EU residents can't pay in dollars.
I personally can understand need, desire of any individual or company to earn maximum possible, no need for twisted, sneaky ways, that insult users intelligence.
The thing is that most people, including myself take it pragmatically- use what works for you, if something does not and there is no chance to change it- you change the product, the tool. Most musicians have no time or interests to bother about good or bad policies of companies. We use what works, Fender turned shit after CBS takeover, people avoided buying it, once the company started making good products again, customers came back. There is so much choice of well working DAWs, insane number of fantastic VST synths, we have have so much choice as never before - lame development, marketing, policies are those companies problems, luckily we artists have the choice.
The OP mistake is to take it all too personally, hurting only himself. After all if he does not like dongles, likes using any VSTs, have good professional DAW and even interesting company`s fora- it is all here. Bienvenido @ Ableton Live

rikhyray wrote: The OP mistake is to take it all too personally, hurting only himself. After all if he does not like dongles, likes using any VSTs, have good professional DAW and even interesting company`s fora- it is all here.

Excuse me, but... how should i take it? "not personally"? I've been betatester for reason 3, reason 4, record 1, reason 5, record 1.5! I've spent a lot of money and energy. I invested with my music on this product: 10 years. I've had so much patience (10 years), waiting for their promises, because reason crashed with vst support, that is why they have never introduced this feature. And, after almost 10 years of patience you still come out without a solution?! Almost every DAW or product similar to reason (fruity loops, orion etc.) had no vst support at first. Ableton Live, too had no plugin support until version 4. Let alone midi-out: this feature lack is a real SHAME! And they sell reason as if it was a "professional product"?! But guess: they feel "insulted" if i say outside the reason fanboy's community it is considered kind of an expensive toy.

Reason 6 comes with a dongle... A DONGLE?! Read the interviews! Propellerhead has always claimed "we will never introduce copy protections that frustrate users, it's almost a punishment, we really want our users to have an easy life, we trust our loyal costumers".

Reason 6 comes with audio tracks... AUDIO TRACKS?! Read what PH staff said about audio tracks in reason: "it's out of the question if we just said 'a little bit of audio'. That's the sort of thing that we just don't do. And then Reason as a concept, as a product to make music, might change too much. That's why audio tracks at this time is really a no-no, because we feel we'd be ruining what we created rather than enhancing it".

Reason 6 = "reason 5 + record 1.5" ... UNITED?! WHAT?! You promised reason and record had to be SEPARATED. You wanted record to be a kind of "easy protools" for guitarists and singers... But, since it was a commercial failure (infact no one bought it for that aim. ONLY REASON USERS, and ONLY BECAUSE it was a special offer) you introduce "reason 6" less than 1 year after reason 5??! Ok, you have to retrieve the loss of money! Be honest and say that. Why telling us "it is what you wanted" (???!) The fact the majority of reason users own the special "record for reason users" edition DOES NOT MEAN we wanted reason becoming record! WE WANTED REASON AS A SEPARATE PRODUCT. And now the hype "wow! the new product you all wanted (????!), and hey! It's 64 bit, too! Download it, it is only 99€".

Reason is not a DAW WAIT: what?! Not a DAW?!! In 2001 it wasn't a daw, with that ridicolous litte "sequencer". It was a simple, functional, RACK EMULATION. Not today! Today reason is not the Rack GUI anymore: the main environment has become the sequencer. So Reason is a DAW, only not complete, because of lack of vst support, midi-out, rewire master, above all.

You want VST? Use Rewire. REWIRE?! Rewire is for AUDIO, not for MIDI. It is messy, unpleasant, non intuitive, unmusical, it is not a replacement for plugins, it's just a way to bypass the mixer and create a synchronized AUDIO TRACK to be mixed down in the master DAW. Why the hell you insist telling me it is a substitution for vst?! IT ISN'T. It is an audio connection protocol, not a midi protocol. When i use rewire because of no other possibility, I KNOW it is a pain in the ass, so don't tell people it is "cool, easy and intuitive". Sometimes it is useful, but nothing to do with plugins. Not to mention in live situations!

Ok, one can change his mind... No problem... I have had patience, i have had faith... you now are acting the opposite of what you said before, but ok... it's business... it's the new "cheesy young teenager" target. So i can even say "stop, game over" and throw away years of know-how and music composed with your product. BUT:

(1) have you ever tried to sell reason license? I have 6 BOXES on my shelf! You cannot sell only the last version. It is not allowed. YOU MUST SELL EVERYTHING. Could I sell only record with the dongle, then? NO, YOU CANNOT DO THAT! RECORD cannot be selled separated! And all my refills? I've bought a lot of refills, some expensive! A "pain in the ass" for a software that in september will be obsolete.

(2) as far as i can guess thinking about Propellerhead's "coherence" (see: "no audio! out of discussion!", "no dongles! out of discussion!", "it is not a daw!" etc.) it is even possible that, after 10 years of "no vst support, out of discussion!" they'll introduce "REASON 7" with vst support and midi out, claiming that as a "revolutionary feature" LOL.

The ghost of 3phase is upon us. I'm almost certain of it....

LoopStationZebra wrote:The ghost of 3phase is upon us. I'm almost certain of it.... 8O

Next he will sue Apple for breaking a tooth trying eat iPhone for breakfast.... "but it is written - apple!"

When Steinberg dropped DX support, half the forum was gone.

Steinberg is still there.

Well said, 9V, now that you presented it that way...

But, what's next? Are you going to turn that into a pdf and pass it along to other fed up Reason users and start a rebellion? Personally I would just boycott them and start using another DAW.
Is all that gained knowledge and music made on Reason really lost? You can't apply that knowledge to another DAW and render out the tunes you made in it?

A whole bunch of malarkey, I say. Being so attached to a company that's losing it's footing and not heeding your words. Their loss, I say.

Consider it a divorce. You don't need to stay with someone who won't stand by their convictions and grow with you. Fuck em.

This calls for a celebration!

I want to see a 3Phase vs 9V..... all out grudge match.

No Rules, No Sense. No Winner!!!

He's like the ultimate nail to the coffin of mankind...
Should we consider his whining about being a beta-user as somekind of the manifesto?
I hope he is not a mason and has no firearms at home...
Poor looney bastard. I mean 9V...

let's play that track again!

9V are you upset with Propellerhead?

what about KVR, how do you feel about them banning you?

i can totally understand your frustration. i mean, companies never say they will never do something and then do it. that never happens. adding features after a decade!! absurd!! it must be very frustrating for you.

i'm curious, you only posted 7 times in 7 years, how many times did you edit those posts?