Ableton Forum

Does 200 for an intro price seem reasonable? Ideally 150 would be cool for a v1 RC, but being realistic...
I hope they do a trial for 2 to 4 weeks WITH saving; I think I'd be more likely to end up buying something if I needed to load up a project made during trial

lol @ the idea of making music exclusively on a tablet anytime soon as a standard

Sure its been done, and can be done, but they will never fully replace desktops. At least not for a decade plus. Maybe when they develop a standard tactile surface, but that's still a long way off. I understand the optimism but I think some people are getting ahead of themselves with such assumptions.

Ive had the ipad since it came out and its just a toy in the studio for me. Some of the apps are fun but its been a few years and its still just a fun 'extra'. In the end touch screens just plain suck for a lot of things...

Am i missing something here ?
Granted havent been on the forum for quite a while but bitwig to me looks like a blatant Live rip off
Is it even real ?Not just a fake set up by a abelton fan boy listing all the improvements they want for Live 9
or indeed is that the point - this company goes on the back of Live`s experience and releases a Live 9 before abelton does
Opps might havent answerd my own question

i don't catch the joke, for me 360e is fair and descent price. it's not an ipad toy app or a tiny daw, it s basically Live rewrited with all features we asked over 10years. i was thinking it
would cost even more..when you see vsts costing 200e, 360e for an ultimate (on paper) daw is ridiculous price imo.

Joke is probably a bad way to put it. For a company with low overhead (8 employees and a start up grant), who have made a product that is very similar to live with some improvements (they even are going to have a suite version), one would think that they would under cut their competition and not take them head on. At the very east offer corssgrades for ableton users. I am not saying that they have a cheap product but with the amount of cracked software out there a company needs to make it cheap enough for people to buy and not crack. Also this is version one. I would think that it was a massive task to create the software from the ground up, which means there has to be issues. That with the fact that the exciting stuff is in version 2 I would have priced version one cheaper, but then again what the hell do I know. I even sent a former professor (I'm a business geek...best way to make cash) to see if i'm way off base and just want a cheap price, or if theory backs this up.

As long as this is not ableton live 9 then things are great because it is competition that WILL drive down price (unless there has been collusion which is a possibility), and cause both companies to work hard.

Live 9 upgrade most likely has my name on it

Yeah, same here, that is if they went beyond the rewrite with just added 64-bit and a couple refinements.
Hopefully they've taken it as far as a lot of longtime valid FR's and they're own innovative ideas; not just a made-over update, but a plethora of workflow enhancements (freeze clip, midi record session automation, different fade options ie Acid/Vegas, etc). I think most would agree they could care less about extra synth's and fx. They can put that effort into the things that Sampler shouldn't be lacking.

Also upgrade/update savings shouldn't be exclusive to new Lite users, that's not cool.

I don't see how giving a crossgrade offer to Live users would be a reality at all.

HeadrickProductions wrote:Joke is probably a bad way to put it. For a company with low overhead (8 employees and a start up grant), who have made a product that is very similar to live with some improvements (they even are going to have a suite version), one would think that they would under cut their competition and not take them head on. At the very east offer corssgrades for ableton users. I am not saying that they have a cheap product but with the amount of cracked software out there a company needs to make it cheap enough for people to buy and not crack. Also this is version one. I would think that it was a massive task to create the software from the ground up, which means there has to be issues. That with the fact that the exciting stuff is in version 2 I would have priced version one cheaper, but then again what the hell do I know. I even sent a former professor (I'm a business geek...best way to make cash) to see if i'm way off base and just want a cheap price, or if theory backs this up.

As long as this is not ableton live 9 then things are great because it is competition that WILL drive down price (unless there has been collusion which is a possibility), and cause both companies to work hard.

Live 9 upgrade most likely has my name on it

Again, what makes you believe that Bitwig would announce the price to some random european retailer but not to the general public?
How does the "retial" price posted on some random music stores website affect whether or not they have a cross-grade price?

You know what? I'm already upset about the bug Bitwig has where when I mix down in it, it sounds muddy and not clear!
I haven't heard it yet, but assuming that it's a direct copy of Live I'm very upset at it's sound engine quality!

i just got a Bitwig coupon in my Cheerios. all you need is 190 proof of purchase bar codes and you can have the software for the price of postage.

true story.

fx23 wrote:i don't catch the joke, for me 360e is fair and descent price. it's not an ipad toy app or a tiny daw, it s basically Live rewrited with all features we asked over 10years. i was thinking it
would cost even more..when you see vsts costing 200e, 360e for an ultimate (on paper) daw is ridiculous price imo.

but the thing is, they may have added those requests, but they can't possibly have added everything Live has in that time. Once you start using BWS you would quickly discover all the things it is lacking.

first example that comes to mind: what if you want to put music to video?

then there's all the little things you haven't thought of yet that seem insignificant but when it's not there is actually a PITA.

I think people are overly optimistic about what v1 will be.

the other thing no one has mentioned - Apple seriously lowered the bar making Logic $200. Ableton hasn't followed suit yet, but you would think they might have to at some point. Even teaching Ableton for a living and much preferring the workflow, sometimes it can be hard to recommend paying so much money for it when they could get Logic, and all it's plugins and content for that price.

Wow, soothsaying from all perpectives around the crystal ball!

I'm curious what comes next!

Me too, ever since Apple become the majority shareholder in Bitwig last month, it's been a constant guessing game!!

Forge. wrote: Once you start using BWS you would quickly discover all the things it is lacking.

Why even say this without proof? Seriously, I'm sure there will be something that some user will want that BWS does not have, but to blanket statement like that off of a splash video and a few features mentioned that Bitwig obviously thought would get people from the Live, Logic, etc. camp excited is exactly the type of projecting that is beyond silly.

Here let's put them all together shall we?

BWS will not have the features that Live has.
It will be buggy.
It will not have the glorious UI that Live has.
It will not work with your favorite controller.
It will be expensive.
With no crossgrade price.
Tech suport will suck.
The developers were not that important to Ableton anyway,
but their leaving Ableton is why Live 9 hasn't come out yet.
Live 9's new features none of us have a clue about will blow it away.

and most importantly we know all of this because of what we haven't been told!

Machinesworking wrote:

Forge. wrote: Once you start using BWS you would quickly discover all the things it is lacking.

Why even say this without proof? Seriously, I'm sure there will be something that some user will want that BWS does not have, but to blanket statement like that off of a splash video and a few features mentioned that Bitwig obviously thought would get people from the Live, Logic, etc. camp excited is exactly the type of projecting that is beyond silly.

you got Live back at the start didn't you? It didn't even have an arrange view at version 1.

I'm not saying it won't offer something over Live, I just personally doubt it could be worth 360E at version 1. Especially like I said with Logic now $200.

Didn't you actually say the same thing in this thread?

timothyallan wrote:Me too, ever since Apple become the majority shareholder in Bitwig last month, it's been a constant guessing game!!

I see what you did there.

Forge. wrote:you got Live back at the start didn't you? It didn't even have an arrange view at version 1.

Tail end of version 3, got the upgrade to 4 for $50. Couldn't see using it until I decided to start p[laying live and hated using Logic for that.

I'm not saying it won't offer something over Live, I just personally doubt it could be worth 360E at version 1. Especially like I said with Logic now $200.

Didn't you actually say the same thing in this thread?

Close, I said they should offer it at a cheaper price than standard, but that it's not weird or unusual for them to offer it at the standard price.
But I also again and again and again and again and again and again and again have mentioned that we simply do not know enough to draw any rational conclusions yet.

We don't know it doesn't have video support, not mentioning it isn't a real indicator at this point. Hell they haven't mentioned SysEx either, or if they have an event editor? etc.
What we don't know about something isn't proof that it doesn't have it, seriously.

We don't know the real price or whether they have a crossgrade price or not. Some website for a music store is not a solid indicator of any of that. to me even speculating about it based on a place holder at a single store is silly.

That, is what I'm getting at. This all reminds me of the Simpsons episode where the TV anchorman sees a close up of an ant on the Space Shuttle broadcast and pledges allegiance to his new ant overlords!

Fuck it. Ima fuel this fire! Here's a guy who went to NAMM. Zico towards the bottom of the page!
http://forum.anjunabeats.com/topic/5544 ... ge__st__30