Making your laptop audio punch like Vinyl

[olafmol]

i think this thread is strange: why did the Cubase SX tracks he produced sound good over the PA system, while the live-tracks don't? it seems to me that is the most important question right now

[anonymouse]

The past SX tracks I had mastered using proper monitors.
This time, using only Live, I had used a crappy pair of headphones - but though the master sounded great on these headphones after quite a bit of tweaking to get it right, it sounded rubbish on a big PA.

So the main lesson for me is that proper monitors are essential.

However, that is fairly obvious.

But the point of this thread is really to find any tips for improving well-mastered/monitored tracks that have been wholly produced on a laptop so as they have that bite and edge that is possible using hardware samplers, synths and recorders.

[olafmol]

ok, clear answer

yes, good monitors, a good listening environment, experienced ears and good reference-material are essential.... it seems you only lack the good monitors as you could create good stuff in SX using monitors..

about software vs hardware: that's a whole other battle to be fought

what i can say: vinyl cannot be compared to the original master-mix, neither done in software or with hardware, it just add's its own characteristics to the sound... but i hope the tips described above can help you to achieve these typical vinyl-artifacts that lots of ears like so much

good luck!

Olaf

[malarky]

But the point of this thread is really to find any tips for improving well-mastered/monitored tracks that have been wholly produced on a laptop so as they have that bite and edge that is possible using hardware samplers, synths and recorders.

actually, about 75% of the time i spend making music is through headphones on my laptop. i just make sure to do all the final tweaking though my monitors. being able to be very loud is a limitation of mine as well, but i find that i get the best results when mixing at moderate to lower levels anyways.

fresh ears is another very important factor. don't ever try to finalize something after your ears have already been worn out from working on music for a few hours.

[telekom]

Hey Anonymouse,
I didn't know about minidisc recording in these other formats - I was referring to the original Minidisc format. I guess if you're using MD as a data format then your recording standards are only limited by the spec of the hardware you're using to get sound in. Can you also select the sample rate when you record a lossless wav?

[anonymouse]

on my machine the only PCM option available for recording is 44.1kHz 16bit (about 100 minutes on a disc)

The alternative recording mode is Atrac 3 Plus (but I'm not sure what exactly that is in terms of lossiness - but you get about 8 hours on the same disc in that format)

[agnès]

to my experiences, the best thing to do is once in the club, low down you're channels, tweak you're EQ's, low down the master a bit,
uncompress you're master as well (just limiting is a good idea) and then push the gain on the club PA's connected mixer...
So you'll go with a rather clean signal out of you're laptop and use the club mixer to push it again...
it is of course not an ultimate solution but it helped me some times to get a blast out of a rather muddly woofly sound at first...

all the best,
a.

[polyslax]

Some stuff I saved from an older thread here follows below. For any Mac users interested I keep these, and lots of other stuff, in DevonThink. Great free form database. They make some other cool stuff as well including some nice freeware utilities.

Anyhow, here's the stuff, it's an amalgamation of a number of different posts:

50Hz
Boost: To thicken up bass drums and sub-bass parts.
Cut: Below this frequency on all vocal tracks. This should reduce the effect of any microphone 'pops'.
70-100Hz
Boost: For bass lines and bass drums.
Cut: For vocals.
General: Be wary of boosting the bass of too many tracks. Low frequency sounds are particularly vulnerable to phase cancellation between sounds of similar frequency. This can result in a net 'cut of the bass frequencies.
200-400Hz
Boost: To add warmth to vocals or to thicken a guitar sound.
Cut: To bring more clarity to vocals or to thin cymbals and higher frequency percussion.
Boost or Cut: to control the 'woody' sound of a snare.
400-800Hz
Boost: To add warmth to toms.
Boost or Cut: To control bass clarity, or to thicken or thin guitar sounds.
General: In can be worthwhile applying cut to some of the instruments in the mix to bring more clarity to the bass within the overall mix.
800Hz-1KHz
Boost: To thicken vocal tracks. At 1 KHz apply boost to add a knock to a bass drum.
1-3KHz
Boost: To make a piano more aggressive. Applying boost between 1KHz and 5KHz will also make guitars and basslines more cutting.
Cut: Apply cut between 2 KHz and 3KHz to smooth a harsh sounding vocal part.
General: This frequency range is often used to make instruments stand out in a mix.
3-6KHz
Boost: For a more 'plucked' sounding bass part. Apply boost at around 6KHz to add some definition to vocal parts and distorted guitars.
Cut: Apply cut at about 3KHz to remove the hard edge of piercing vocals. Apply cut between 5KHZ and 6KHz to dull down some parts in a mix.
6-10KHz
Boost: To sweeten vocals. The higher the frequency you boost the more 'airy/breathy' the result will be. Also boost to add definition to the sound of acoustic guitars or to add edge to synth sounds or strings or to enhance the sound of a variety of percussion sounds. For example boost this range to:
Bring out cymbals.
Add ring to a snare.
Add edge to a bass drum.
10-16KHz
Boost: To make vocals more 'airy' or for crisp cymbals and percussion. Also boost this frequency to add sparkle to pads, but only if the frequency is present in the original sound, otherwise you will just be adding hiss to the recording.
Specific Instruments
Vocals
General: Roll off below 60Hz using a High Pass Filter. This range is unlikely to contain anything useful, so you may as well reduce the noise the track contributes to the mix.
Treat Harsh Vocals: To soften vocals apply cut in a narrow bandwidth somewhere in the 2.5KHz to 4KHz range.
Get An Open Sound: Apply a gentle boost above 6KHz using a shelving filter.
Get Brightness, Not Harshness: Apply a gentle boost using a wide-band Bandpass Filter above 6KHz. Use the Sweep control to sweep the frequencies to get it right.
Get Smoothness: Apply some cut in a narrow band in the 1KHz to 2KHz range.
Bring Out The Bass: Apply some boost in a reasonably narrow band somewhere in the 200Hz to 600Hz range.
Radio Vocal Effect: Apply some cut at the High Frequencies, lots of boost about 1.5KHz and lots of cut below 700Hz.
Telephone Effect: Apply lots of compression pre EQ, and a little analogue distortion by turning up the input gain. Apply some cut at the High Frequencies, lots of boost about 1.5KHz and lots of cut below 700Hz.
Hi-Hats
Get Definition: Roll off everything below 600Hz using a High Pass Filter.
Get Sizzle: Apply boost at 10KHz using a Band Pass Filter. Adjust the bandwidth to get the sound right.
Treat Clangy Hats: Apply some cut between 1KHz and 4KHz.
Bass Drum
General: Apply a little cut at 300Hz and some boost between 40Hz and 80Hz.
Control The Attack: Apply boost or cut around 4KHz to 6KHz.
Treat Muddiness: Apply cut somewhere in the 100Hz to 500Hz range.
Guitar
Treat Unclear Vocals: Apply some cut to the guitar between 1KHz and 5KHz to bring the vocals to the front of the mix.
General: Apply a little boost between 100Hz and 250Hz and again between 10KHz and 12KHz.
Acoustic Guitar
Add Sparkle: Try some gentle boost at 10KHz using a Band Pass Filter with a medium bandwidth.
General
Try applying some mid-range cut to the rhythm section to make vocals and other instruments more clearly heard.

something i do as i use many basslines in my tracks (and i'm speaking for Techno), is roll off the bassline below 100k, and give it a slight boost at 200k.
This gives my kick drum room to breath and not steal frequencies and makes compression sound, well, not so squashy.

other than that, i just use my ears

dont forget to master at at least 48khz (preferably 24bit / 48khz), and then dither/resample to 16bit/44.1khz

that alone will help mixes from getting "muddy", and most soundcards support 48khz for live out.... if you are rendering, and have the CPU power, go for 24bit/96khz!

20 Hz and below - impossible to detect, remove as it only adds unnecessary energy to the total sound, thereby most probably holding down the overall volume of the track
60 Hz and below - sub bass (feel only)
80(-100) Hz - feel AND hear bass
100-120 Hz - the "club sound system punch" resides here
200 Hz and below - bottom
250 Hz - notch filter here can add thump to a kick drum
150-400 Hz - boxiness
200 Hz-1.5 KHz - punch, fatness, impact
800 Hz-4 KHz - edge, clarity, harshness, defines timbre
4500 Hz - exteremly tiring to the ears, add a slight notch here
5-7 KHz - de-essing is done here
4-9 KHz - brightness, presence, definition, sibilance, high frequency distortion
6-15 KHz - air and presence
9-15 KHz - adding will give sparkle, shimmer, bring out details - cutting will smooth out harshness and darken the mix

50Hz
1. Increase to add more fullness to lowest frequency instruments like foot, floor tom, and the bass.
2. Reduce to decrease the "boom" of the bass and will increase overtones and the recognition of bass line in the mix. This is most often used on loud bass lines like rock.

100Hz
1. Increase to add a harder bass sound to lowest frequency instruments.
2. Increase to add fullness to guitars, snare.
3. Increase to add warmth to piano and horns.
4. Reduce to remove boom on guitars & increase clarity.

200Hz
1. Increase to add fullness to vocals.
2. Increase to add fullness to snare and guitar ( harder sound ).
3. Reduce to decrease muddiness of vocals or mid-range instruments.
4. Reduce to decrease gong sound of cymbals.

400Hz
1. Increase to add clarity to bass lines especially when speakers are at low volume.
2. Reduce to decrease "cardboard" sound of lower drums (foot and toms).
3. Reduce to decrease ambiance on cymbals.

800Hz
1. Increase for clarity and "punch" of bass.
2. Reduce to remove "cheap" sound of guitars.

1.5KHz
1. Increase for "clarity" and "pluck" of bass.
2. Reduce to remove dullness of guitars.

3KHz
1. Increase for more "pluck" of bass.
2. Increase for more attack of electric / acoustic guitar.
3. Increase for more attack on low piano parts.
4. Increase for more clarity / hardness on voice.
5. Reduce to increase breathy, soft sound on background vocals.
6. Reduce to disguise out-of-tune vocals / guitars.

5KHz
1. Increase for vocal presence.
2. Increase low frequency drum attack ( foot / toms).
3. Increase for more "finger sound" on bass.
4. Increase attack of piano, acoustic guitar and brightness on guitars (especially rock guitars).
5. Reduce to make background parts more distant.
6. Reduce to soften "thin" guitar.

7KHz
1. Increase to add attack on low frequency drums ( more metallic sound ).
2. Increase to add attack to percussion instruments.
3. Increase on dull singer.
4. Increase for more "finger sound" on acoustic bass.
5. Reduce to decrease "s" sound on singers.
6. Increase to add sharpness to synthesizers, rock guitars, acoustic guitar and piano.

10KHz
1. Increase to brighten vocals.
2. Increase for "light brightness" in acoustic guitar and piano.
3. Increase for hardness on cymbals.
4. Reduce to decrease "s" sound on singers.

15KHz
1. Increase to brighten vocals (breath sound).
2. Increase to brighten cymbals, string instruments and flutes.
3. Increase to make sampled synthesizer sound more real.

sub 0-60
bass 60-180
mid bass 180-300
lo mids 300-800
mids 800-2k
upper mids 2-5k
high end 5k up

[leonard]

bumperoo...

[Johnisfaster]

that was extremely handy...

the only thing I'd like to add is that I've read the brain interprets things in the 3-4khz area as having more presence so if you boost something in that area it seems much more present in the mix, if you notch in that area it tends to pull back quite a bit in a mix. so I'd definetly say you should boost some stuff here and notch someth stuff here too.

think of the frequencey spectrum kinda like this:
not too many things can fit at the same frequencey at the same time. this is especially true for low end stuff but also true for mids and highs (less and less as you go from low to high)

most mud happens when everything is being crammed into the same spot. kinda like trying push too many things into a bucket. so on low end things you should roll off the highs that you don't need. on high end things (such as pads and pianos) you should roll of all the lows that you don't need. on mid range things roll off some of the low and highs. if a mid range sound isn't coming through the mix then see if you can notch out a mid area on another instrument that may be taking too much of the mid space.

think of frequencies as space to be filled. if you want something to lay in a certain area of the frequencey spectrum then you need to make sure it has room there.

I've watched people record in studios, and they may roll off all the highs when recording a kick drum. they may roll of all the lows on a high hat. you may think "there aren't any highs on a kick drum to roll off... there aren't any lows on a high hat to roll off" but there are, and they are eating up space in the frequencey spectrum.

[Johnisfaster]

also, about the headphones.

audio NEEDS too travel through air to sound natural, thats what sound is is a wave traveling through the air. how can you expect a huge soundsystem in a ROOM at a club to sound anything like headphones which are less than an inch from your ear.
besides the exageration of the stereo field you are also probably hearing exagerated bass and getting unrealistic seperation between sounds.

if you want to know what it sounds like in the club then the first thing to do would be to pretend you're in the club and let the sound actually travel in a room. turn up the speakers and stand back (in the back of the room, in the center, all over) and just listen to it. sound traveling in space is much different than sound traveling right into your ear.

and listen to your stuff on more than one set of speakers. or rather.... on a really good set of speakers AND a really shitty set of speakers. if it sounds good on a good pair AND the shitty pair then you know it really does sound good.

[philipbarrett]

IMH experience as a live sound mixer I find the #1 problem with tracks people hand to me on shows to be the low end.

The perception seems to be that live rigs have tons of bass (true) and you should mix to take advantage of that. Actually the reverse is better, because I have awesome subs I can easily fatten up your low end if needed, what sounds best is a tight, punchy, well defined bass. Once the "mud" is in there it's really hard to clean up.

A great comparison I find is a good action movie soundtrack. Listen to the low end and you'll hear a tight, defined bass but in a good theater it'll still shake your booty.

[onyxashanti]

the most important thing is to be familiar with your tools.

i have only ever really used headphones [sennheiser hd-25i's] but the difference is that the HD25's are so good and of such high durability, that i've had them for years and have become intimately familiar with their sound. but the other two things that make the most difference are agood spectral analyszer plugin, so that you can see preciselyy what you are hearing, and a plugin called the HDPHX http://www.refinedaudiometrics.com/products-hdphx.shtml which simulates the cross channel mix in each ear.
since i started using this, my mixes have been massively more accurate. but thats just me. i'm dumb like that.

onyx

[subterFUSE]

The "Punchiness" of a recording actually comes from having good dynamic range. (ie difference between tallest peaks and the lowest valleys/noise floor)

When you use compression, the overall RMS volume level is boosted, at the expense of dynamic range. So if you use too much compression, you will lose the punchiness, and the sound may start to become muddy.

Part of the problem with digital music vs. analog recordings like vinyl is that with digital you are restricted to the bit depth you are using. (16 bit in most cases) This reduces the potential dynamic range you have to work with.

[olafmol]

The "Punchiness" of a recording actually comes from having good dynamic range. (ie difference between tallest peaks and the lowest valleys/noise floor)

When you use compression, the overall RMS volume level is boosted, at the expense of dynamic range. So if you use too much compression, you will lose the punchiness, and the sound may start to become muddy.

Part of the problem with digital music vs. analog recordings like vinyl is that with digital you are restricted to the bit depth you are using. (16 bit in most cases) This reduces the potential dynamic range you have to work with.

crap.... the dynamic range of 16bit digital recordings is way more than is possible with vinyl.... digital recordings are just processed way more than was normal in the analog days.

Olaf