Refugee camp babies

[TomViolenz]

The really important questions:

How do starving people have the energy to fuck in the first place?

Why do we never get pictures of this starving fucking as it's taking place and only pictures of the aftermath with the kids with flies on them?

When will the liberals of the world start at the root by trying to talk the men of these countries into acting like good liberals themselves instead of raping women or refusing to wear condoms?

On the day these men stop being the conservatives of their country and actually start listening to reason an empathy

[beats me]

How about instead of just an aid free for all we reward people for not having kids and expanding the misery. Set them up with a nice cozy and secure lifestyle by the country’s comparative standards as long as they don’t breed. Whatever it costs it’s going to be a lot cheaper than supporting generation upon generation in the extreme poverty loop.

[skullneck]

How do starving people have the energy to fuck in the first place?

As Adam Carolla puts it the west keeps sending them food and vaccinations so they can carry on with their rape parade.

The west worships and funds NFL players to carry on their rape parade and vicious crimes.

[TomViolenz]

How about instead of just an aid free for all we reward people for not having kids and expanding the misery. Set them up with a nice cozy and secure lifestyle by the country’s comparative standards as long as they don’t breed. Whatever it costs it’s going to be a lot cheaper than supporting generation upon generation in the extreme poverty loop.

The systemic problems leading to their situation have nothing to do with too many children. (Forcing them to forgo a generation would most certainly make the problems much worse!)
But then, this has been pointed out to you above (mostly by re:dream).
You ignoring this until now, makes you willfully ignorant. Further debate would be therefore a waste of time.

[re:dream]

It's interesting to read this thread... In my day job I run a small research institute dealing with poverty and related issues in sub-Saharan Africa, so I have some understanding of the issues at stake for what the aid industry calls IDPS ("internally displaced people/populations"), poverty, famine, reproductive choice etc. I also have some sense of the desperate nature of the choices people face, and how resilient and good humoured most poor and vulnerable people remain - even those who grew up in refugee camps.

So it is strange to see things expressed expressed in this thread which to many such people would just seem completely bizarre, yet you guys seem to think you are speaking common sense.

From my perspective many of the judgements expressed here really just sound staggeringly smug and ignorant... and I keep finding myself getting angry and irritated at the degree of arrogance I seem to see here.

But then again, people who don't know better just don't know better. And if you don't get it, with all the world's media and education at your fingertips, a thread in a music forum ain't gonna change your mind.

So I will sigh, have another cappucino, and decide consciously not to get all morally indignant. I can do it. I really can









um, now about Bitwig....

[TomViolenz]

Well, but then you are one of these starry eyed liberals, who shouldn't be taken seriously


(Oh, and common sense, is actually neither common, nor really sensible....)

[stringtapper]

The really important questions:

How do starving people have the energy to fuck in the first place?

Why do we never get pictures of this starving fucking as it's taking place and only pictures of the aftermath with the kids with flies on them?

When will the liberals of the world start at the root by trying to talk the men of these countries into acting like good liberals themselves instead of raping women or refusing to wear condoms?

On the day these men stop being the conservatives of their country and actually start listening to reason an empathy

So wait a minute. You'll start talking to them when they start listening?

So who goes first?

[re:dream]

(Oh, and common sense, is actually neither common, nor really sensible....)

I guess what staggers me is how different world views can be.

And I guess what distresses me is not common sense but my experience of daily coming across such mind boggingly disconnected world views. Complete cognitive disconnection.

South Africa is a country of contrasts, with desperate poverty existing alongside unbelievable wealth, and I guess the way I have chosen to live my life takes me across those boundaries every day. And when I travel between the poor South and the rich North I experience the same.

It's like commuting between Elysium and downtown LA every day.

So I have my own sense of normality and common sense, and every now and then I am reminded that not many people share my own weird and interstitial take on things

[stringtapper]

Why feel "staggered"?

Is it really that hard to believe that people in different geographic areas and cultures have different viewpoints?

The problem you guys are having at the moment is you're going straight to the "omg these people are too ignorant to know how ignorant they are! I give up! How could they not know The One Truth that is so obvious to me??"

That's a form of arrogance too. It's the entire reason why I can't stand conservatives and liberals both. Everybody's got it figured out and it's the other guy with a different viewpoint who is the idiot.

Yeah, that's the path to world peace.

FFS.

[beats me]

I guess my viewpoint that I can’t get past is that in certain parts of the world the value of human life is quantity over quality, quality in this situation being not dying or being on the verge of it. While the US battles over at what stage a fetus is considered a human being other parts of the world are about reproduce and see what sticks in extremely low odds. A crime here is a survival tactic elsewhere.

[TomViolenz]

I guess my viewpoint that I can’t get past is that in certain parts of the world the value of human life is quantity over quality, quality in this situation being not dying or being on the verge of it. While the US battles over at what stage a fetus is considered a human being other parts of the world are about reproduce and see what sticks in extremely low odds. A crime here is a survival tactic elsewhere.

What I can't get past is that you probably have never been even close to the areas you make such sweeping generalizations about, yet you are so cock sure that they must all be stupid/wrong/lazy/evil etc...

You should have enough education to know that things are never that black and white and that rightous indignation is rarely rightous.

[regretfullySaid]

An endlessly debatable law in the US (where many are ridiculous in the first place, but Roe vs Wade is more valid debate, despite being contaminated by religious influence) vs the variety of situations going on in different refugee camps...I don't think is a good comparison.

[TomViolenz]

The really important questions:

How do starving people have the energy to fuck in the first place?

Why do we never get pictures of this starving fucking as it's taking place and only pictures of the aftermath with the kids with flies on them?

When will the liberals of the world start at the root by trying to talk the men of these countries into acting like good liberals themselves instead of raping women or refusing to wear condoms?

On the day these men stop being the conservatives of their country and actually start listening to reason an empathy

So wait a minute. You'll start talking to them when they start listening?

So who goes first?

No, the talking has probably been going on for a long time already, the listening is difficult to achieve though.

If a minister of the democratic India can go out and say that rape is sometimes warranted, without having to fear repercussions or even less votes than in the last elections, you know that it's an uphill battle.

But independently from that:
It annoys me greatly that you probably knew very well what I meant, and that your broad brush generalization of the "liberal" positions don't really reflect what my positions are, yet you still go for the cheap shots. This muddies the water greatly. Not just because it makes me a charicature, but you as well.
Let me ask you: How many of your real positions have you defended here and how much do you hide behind a charicature of a conservative just for comical value?!

I venture out and say it: The "liberals" here are not nearly as naive and the "conservatives" probably not nearly as mean/selfish as this thread would seem to show.
Yeah, I know I'm getting all serious again...

[beats me]

How do starving people have the energy to fuck in the first place?

As Adam Carolla puts it the west keeps sending them food and vaccinations so they can carry on with their rape parade.

The west worships and funds NFL players to carry on their rape parade and vicious crimes.

I don't follow sports. So I don't agree with that practice either.

[beats me]

It's interesting to read this thread... In my day job I run a small research institute dealing with poverty and related issues in sub-Saharan Africa, so I have some understanding of the issues at stake for what the aid industry calls IDPS ("internally displaced people/populations"), poverty, famine, reproductive choice etc. I also have some sense of the desperate nature of the choices people face, and how resilient and good humoured most poor and vulnerable people remain - even those who grew up in refugee camps.

So it is strange to see things expressed expressed in this thread which to many such people would just seem completely bizarre, yet you guys seem to think you are speaking common sense.

From my perspective many of the judgements expressed here really just sound staggeringly smug and ignorant... and I keep finding myself getting angry and irritated at the degree of arrogance I seem to see here.

But then again, people who don't know better just don't know better. And if you don't get it, with all the world's media and education at your fingertips, a thread in a music forum ain't gonna change your mind.

So I will sigh, have another cappucino, and decide consciously not to get all morally indignant. I can do it. I really can









um, now about Bitwig....

I don’t create personality mults, but I will passionately defend a side of a debate so that there is one. I’m really not all that righteous or black and white on this issue. I apologize for getting under your and TomV’s skin on this. I don’t claim to be a pillar of original thinking and if nothing else I’m speaking on behalf of those who firmly believe the propaganda I’m spewing out here.