Ableton Forum

8O wrote:

Machinesworking wrote:Yep, not really useful with third party stuff, and no aftertouch.

Cool, glad to be wrong on that one, first reports on other forums were that the keyboards didn't have aftertouch, and I believed it.

Reading up more on it, it seems like it’s 30% there and 70% future potential. Not quite saying its rushed to market but most of the future potential anybody could come up with after about 5 minutes of reading about it. We’re not talking mind blowing features that people didn’t even think of.

But the price is way too steep for what is currently there.

beats me wrote:Reading up more on it, it seems like it’s 30% there and 70% future potential. Not quite saying its rushed to market but most of the future potential anybody could come up with after about 5 minutes of reading about it. We’re not talking mind blowing features that people didn’t even think of.

But the price is way too steep for what is currently there.

That's not surprising, a good portion of the Keyboards value comes from software, Komplete Control that works exclusively with Komplete 9 and 10.
The software is similar to the basic functionality of Kore, mapped parameters, tagged browsing regardless of Komplete instrument etc. They stated Kore was too complex with too many fundamental flaws to keep producing, read that as it wasn't worth the cost to keep making it. Thing is the basic functionality of Kore was pretty good, and they've taken them into their own proprietary hardware line, without seemingly allowing them to be used with third party plug ins...

Personally I don't see how this is going to work out in the long run, Komplete is a great investment, but it's kind of insane to take on an Apple closed environment approach to plug ins. I've been wrong before, but this seems like something they'll throw resources at for a little while, then let stagnate for a year or two, and eventually kill off. The one thing that could change this IMO is if they opened up the software end to third party plug ins and had a hand in making it easy for developers to implement it.

Machinesworking wrote:

beats me wrote:Reading up more on it, it seems like it’s 30% there and 70% future potential. Not quite saying its rushed to market but most of the future potential anybody could come up with after about 5 minutes of reading about it. We’re not talking mind blowing features that people didn’t even think of.

But the price is way too steep for what is currently there.

That's not surprising, a good portion of the Keyboards value comes from software, Komplete Control that works exclusively with Komplete 9 and 10.
The software is similar to the basic functionality of Kore, mapped parameters, tagged browsing regardless of Komplete instrument etc. They stated Kore was too complex with too many fundamental flaws to keep producing, read that as it wasn't worth the cost to keep making it. Thing is the basic functionality of Kore was pretty good, and they've taken them into their own proprietary hardware line, without seemingly allowing them to be used with third party plug ins...

Personally I don't see how this is going to work out in the long run, Komplete is a great investment, but it's kind of insane to take on an Apple closed environment approach to plug ins. I've been wrong before, but this seems like something they'll throw resources at for a little while, then let stagnate for a year or two, and eventually kill off. The one thing that could change this IMO is if they opened up the software end to third party plug ins and had a hand in making it easy for developers to implement it.

I had Kore but didn’t use it much. I could see a major problem being them having to keep up with every new plug-in that comes out and users are going to demand it and whine about it a lot. We already see it with DAWs and that’s not NI’s major focus. If anything they overpromised that kind of integration without being forward thinking about the heaps of problems ahead.

beats me wrote: I had Kore but didn’t use it much. I could see a major problem being them having to keep up with every new plug-in that comes out and users are going to demand it and whine about it a lot. We already see it with DAWs and that’s not NI’s major focus. If anything they overpromised that kind of integration without being forward thinking about the heaps of problems ahead.

Well with Kore they didn't have to, extended integration wasn't tied to certain DAWs, and plug in developers didn't have to do anything. Instead you could add Plug ins to the library yourself. I don't see that in Komplete Control? hopefully it's possible but it looks like the tags are probably being instigated in the NI plug ins themselves.
Kore's problems came from the rest of the system, but it seams NI have left out third party plug ins for now, easier to deal wit your own issues than incompatibility problems with other developers.

Well, I've seen all the glossy brochures and I think this is a trip I want to take!

For anybody who has Komplete 9 Ultimate or Komplete 10 Ultimate, that's a lot of instruments that will be immediately compatible with the controller.

I really REALLY like the lights above the keybed that show you the function of each key. Which ones are keyswitches, which ones are notes, which ones are patterns. Nicely done NI!

And the 8 knobs above have clear displays showing what parameter they control in that moment and what the current value is. The knobs will be purposed differently instrument-by-instrument and they can be arranged in pages with an easy page forward/back button on the hardware. Well done NI!

The only thing I wish they DID include was a browser display similar to Maschine's, that way you could browse without moving your eyes to the computer screen, which could then be positioned a little farther from the keyboard.

But all in all, it looks like a top-notch controller. I just need to decide 49 or 61? And which controller here will have to be moved out of this space? Decisions, decisions!

It would have been nice if they somewhat went with the Maschine approach where you don’t have to look at the computer at all. Add a small touch screen for tag filter, browsing and sound selection, and favorites grouping and selection. This wouldn’t replace a DAW but would be perfect for performance. Look for this type thing in the next version, Kontrol Perform. And since it’s also a hardware reconfiguration the early adopters will have to shell out for the keyboard again.

beats me wrote:It would have been nice if they somewhat went with the Maschine approach where you don’t have to look at the computer at all. Add a small touch screen for tag filter, browsing and sound selection, and favorites grouping and selection. This wouldn’t replace a DAW but would be perfect for performance. Look for this type thing in the next version, Kontrol Perform. And since it’s also a hardware reconfiguration the early adopters will have to shell out for the keyboard again.

The part I highlighted above isn't likely to happen anytime soon. Look at how long it took NI to go from Maschine to Maschine Studio. Years. Anybody who needs (or wants) a controller that is tightly integrated with Komplete 9 or 10 should probably not "wait for better".

Harmonic Progression wrote: The part I highlighted above isn't likely to happen anytime soon. Look at how long it took NI to go from Maschine to Maschine Studio. Years. Anybody who needs (or wants) a controller that is tightly integrated with Komplete 9 or 10 should probably not "wait for better".

I think the point is some people can't afford to spend $700 on a controller keyboard every two years.
Especially one that only performs well with a certain brand of plug ins, in certain DAWs.

There are options out there, if you think this is the best for you fine of course go for it, but any logical outlook on brand new software or hardware is to wait a bit until the 'public beta' period is over. I liked Kore a lot for instance, but Kore 1 software kinda blew chunks, it wasn't until v2 that it was a tight system. That applies with Live, and pretty much any ground breaking new product. Reaktor was a mess at least on OSX for quite a while etc.

There nothing "groundbreaking" here from a technology standpoint.

It's a MIDI Keyboard coupled to Maschine's browser mostly.

I have had a few mk1 NI product and they all worked flawlessly. I would take the risk again.

The warranty period covers the risk of malfunction.

stoersignal wrote:that`s really dissappointing! who needs more midi-keyboards and piano samples??? where is Massive2, Absynth 6 and Reaktor 6?

What kind of whiz kid are you to not find the current Reaktor to be worthy of a life time career?

Stromkraft wrote:

stoersignal wrote:that`s really dissappointing! who needs more midi-keyboards and piano samples??? where is Massive2, Absynth 6 and Reaktor 6?

What kind of whiz kid are you to not find the current Reaktor to be worthy of a life time career?

So Reaktor is perfect then and has no room for improvement?

Plus why single out Reaktor? Massive could benefit from some enhancements and tweaks, so could Absynth, Guitar Rig is IMO getting it's ass handed to it by Amplitube etc. I'm not really invested in this, but it's a pretty boring update if you're not especially excited about the new keyboards.

Machinesworking wrote:

Stromkraft wrote:

stoersignal wrote: but it's a pretty boring update if you're not especially excited about the new keyboards.

Dedicated controllers are needed if you want to sell software these days, the keyboards are here to revive interest in the Komplete product range.

They will open up new possibilities and new markets. Why not use the lights on the keybed for piano lessons for example ?

This in turn could make the updates you are calling for a reality.

Syver wrote:

Machinesworking wrote: but it's a pretty boring update if you're not especially excited about the new keyboards.

Dedicated controllers are needed if you want to sell software these days, the keyboards are here to revive interest in the Komplete product range.

They will open up new possibilities and new markets. Why not use the lights on the keybed for piano lessons for example ?

This in turn could make the updates you are calling for a reality.

The first part, not true at all. U-He is doing great with zero dedicated hardware, so is Alchemy, Omnisphere etc.

It may be that you're speculating on a particular business and what they may or may not do with their profits? I'm going with the latter.
I would make a guess that yes, Komplete 11 will include some upgrades to their plug ins, regardless of whether Komplete Care keyboards are successes or failures, based simply on the fact that the lack of plug in upgrades is being noted by end users like me, and we are skipping buying the Komplete upgrade. That and it would be pretty nuts not to upgrade something the next time around.

Also, as of now the lights on the keyboard cannot be used for piano lessons unless you use what NI supplies you with right now. When it's an open system it will be pretty cool, but no guarantees that happens.