LIVE 5 great product going BAD!

[krank]

I'm 47 years old. I've been involved with DAW production and live MIDI use for 15 years.

Live works perfectly for ME. I didn't say that it is a perfect product. But after working with so many products over time, it is refreshing to see Ableton pushing the envelope with innovation. Sure, there are bugs to be resolved. But they listen and respond. But rash, rude, sometimes illiterate non-constructive criticism doesn't help. That's why there is a bugs & problems, and a beta testing forum.

I love Live. It opens in 5 seconds (a little slower on my aging Powerbook), closes instantly, behaves predictably and never ceases to amaze me with the creativity it allows me to express.

I'm still looking for the 'youthful sparkle' button, though!

Hey, you seem to have taken my harshness in pretty good spirit, so peace be with it and best regards. Yeah, your previous post triggered me - it read to me is as if you're saying there's no point in any kind of criticism simply because Ableton is a cool product overall - and if someone doesn't like it, he can leave the playground.

That's a kind of thinking that I find counter-constructive. Not everyone is articulate (or literate) enough to express their troubles without coming across as negative or defaitist. When I look objectively at the original poster's grievances they do seem pretty valid to me, and in line with my own (especially irt. the transport behaviour and removal of preset browsing in the VTS windows).

Much as I like Live I find there are some things that simply must be addressed asap to make it a complete and mature DAW package. And I don't see flattery and veiling words in praise as conducive to getting things fixed, quite the contrary.

One thing that makes me wonder, too, is how overly grateful people seem when a member of the Ableton crew occasionally posts something like, yeah, we're looking into it. They're just doing their job, we are customers of their company, they depend on us for a living.

Now, I'll go looking for that 'youthful sparkle' button with you, I feel like some.

[sweetjesus]

mouse pointer visible when changing volumes or sends (an old bug thats resurfaced)

mo

this has been discussed and ableton said that it is the intended behaviour.

furthermore, try your system wipe, i got many crazy bugs with L5 beta, but the ones you seem to be having sound like they could be resolved with a format.

[mike holiday]

i dont think ableton ever uses this program either i mean nah its probably not even ment to sculpt sounds with....

i didn't read any replies only a small part of the original post

silly a little research would reveal that live is an artist's dream in conception
to go from making music to helping others make music
(and ummm allll the monolake music is brilliant)

is truly a step forward in artistic endeavor

[Trat]

I think Ableton 5 sucks for dj-ing cause it will only work if u prefab your set (ie. pre beatmatch all ur tracks and ZZZzzz,,,...). It's so bad the software isn;t as intelligent as it pretends it is: the software doesn;t learn anything from what uve done when u analysed and beatmatched 100's of tracks. It will still make mistakes in warping the tracks and this makes me go ZZZzzz,,,... again. To much efford has gone in the effects and I would have seen a better warping engine instead of a beatslicer that does the same as a freeware plugin... To bad, cause I realy like the looks of the product and I was considering buying it...

[Trat]

i dont think ableton ever uses this program either i mean nah its probably not even ment to sculpt sounds with....

i didn't read any replies only a small part of the original post

silly a little research would reveal that live is an artist's dream in conception
to go from making music to helping others make music
(and ummm allll the monolake music is brilliant)

is truly a step forward in artistic endeavor

Don't forget that monolake also uses MAX/MSP for his music. I know that there are many artist using the software for music production, but the market is saturated with music that sounds like Live. Thus an argument that Monolake uses the software isn't really vallid.

[StompyJ]

I think Ableton 5 sucks for dj-ing cause it will only work if u prefab your set (ie. pre beatmatch all ur tracks and ZZZzzz,,,...). It's so bad the software isn;t as intelligent as it pretends it is: the software doesn;t learn anything from what uve done when u analysed and beatmatched 100's of tracks. It will still make mistakes in warping the tracks and this makes me go ZZZzzz,,,... again. To much efford has gone in the effects and I would have seen a better warping engine instead of a beatslicer that does the same as a freeware plugin... To bad, cause I realy like the looks of the product and I was considering buying it...

Never mind this post actually, you're right, it stinks for DJaying. Dont use it anymore. BTW: where do/did you dj so I can steal your timeslot.

heh

[Martyn]

When Live 4 first got released, i remember that there were still quite a few bugs hanging around too. They all pretty much got fixed not long after release.

It's really important for a company like Ableton to be able to meet a deadline in time for something as important as NAMM. The publicity and industry excitement that Live 5 is going to stir up at that show is going to generate a huge ammount of income for them. That equates to a better product for us in the end, it's simply MORE important to make that show, than please a few users at the moment.

Rest assured, those bugs will definately be sorted out pretty soon after the Abes are rested, and Live 5's been demod to the industry.

Give em a break, they must be shattered.

[Trat]

I think Ableton 5 sucks for dj-ing cause it will only work if u prefab your set (ie. pre beatmatch all ur tracks and ZZZzzz,,,...). It's so bad the software isn;t as intelligent as it pretends it is: the software doesn;t learn anything from what uve done when u analysed and beatmatched 100's of tracks. It will still make mistakes in warping the tracks and this makes me go ZZZzzz,,,... again. To much efford has gone in the effects and I would have seen a better warping engine instead of a beatslicer that does the same as a freeware plugin... To bad, cause I realy like the looks of the product and I was considering buying it...

Never mind this post actually, you're right, it stinks for DJaying. Dont use it anymore. BTW: where do/did you dj so I can steal your timeslot.

heh

Why would u want to know that? Who cares about this anyway? I'm not engaging into anything with u dude...

[statlerandwaldorf]

I'm with him. Nuendo/Cubase still has the notoorious crossfade bug which is the biggest issue ever.

And back to the original post you can't compare live to crap like vsts and reason. reason doesn't even record audio for christsakes, let alone time stretch it on the run blah blah blah.

Besides if you aren't happy with it, don't buy it. I am glad to have a version with a couple of bugs now than wait another month for them to be ironed out. If their is an update in a month I will still be in the same position I was in anyway, except I have been able to use ableton for like four weeks.

[mosca]

If you see the Cursor when sliding, it is a bug.

from Reiner @ Ableton (in the beta forum)

if thats what you mean by discussed - i never had this in any of the beta's (1-20) only in the release candidate. It's a minor GUI thing so no great worry, but - it's a bug that was fixed apparently and is now back again

i am going to do a system wipe tho - out with the old in with the new

mo

[chikabee]

Judging from the original post we can see in this post
from the dates and time - it was created about 12 hours or so
before Ableton released Live 5 officially.... which is
what none of us felt was ready now that this time has come to past.... In any event
i guess what?? should we tally up the bugs here? TO MAKE THINGS easy?
i brought it... am i pleased no because i cant really use it
with some of these strange or weird bugs and some that are DAW 101
which should have been ironed out from the gate.
also looking at the beta board and the post in general it is somethings
that clearly makes this software unstable and not ready this soon...

[DJRetard]

When I read that many get equal or better performance with 5 I have to believe it. I see no reason for people telling fibs. I also see no reason for others who dont get the performance they would expect to tell fibs. Im one that doesnt get as good performace.

I dont know the reasons, it must be system specific.

For those that say "buy something else" is not very constructive at all. Comments like that dont help. Performance issues or not I would imagine that 99% of the users on here want to use live as their daw of choice and if some expereince performance issues its ulikely their all lying, but it doesnt mean its a software issue either.

This post was obviously of little help





In answer to the original poster I dont think Live has gone bad at all. Im not pleased in the slightest about the new transport, but apart from that Live 5 has been improved in many areas. It just became a little more complex and mature.

[Vercengetorex]

Good god...

For two weeks I leave the Live forums, and when I get back...

well,... JUST LOOK AT THIS MESS!!!

Seriously though, did someone actually suggest that the beta testing process carried out by the Abletons is "an abuse of their consumers" ?!

That is the most ignorant thing I have heard in a long time.

The private and public beta test system the Abletons have been using for a quite a while now has proven very effective again and again.

If you are experiencing a bug, let the Abletons know, they will get to it (and a lot quicker than SteinPropEMagiNativeCake ever would)

[12micsn1]

Sometimes people think they have the right to impose to much freewill on others with there negative, defeatist and often ignorant comments then being positive in anyway. Its easliy seen in this forum with the words "Live sucks" being used by a few members. Honestly some people dont know how to act in a respectful manner. Ableton could close there doors on all of us liked that if they wanted to for good. Who needs to be imposed upon with that here?
Live has done more then few things since being introduced to make a world difference in the whole creative process making music and djying. Are you at least grateful because of that?. The whole attitude of being angry and frustrated can only leave to destructive behavior that other people will have to eventually deal with. Live needs positive people who can communicate any reoccuring problems if they want to make improvements. Live after all is now at version 5.01 correct? Dont be part of the problem but part of the solution.

[Robert Henke]

[Don't forget that monolake also uses MAX/MSP for his music. I know that there are many artist using the software for music production, but the market is saturated with music that sounds like Live. Thus an argument that Monolake uses the software isn't really vallid.

Hmm, I do not get the logic behind this post. So, what exactly is not valid in my use of Live for sounddesign, editing, recording, live performance etc... ? The fact that I need MAX for MIDI parsing stuff, Jitter for my video work and MSP for synthesis algorithms Live (not yet) supports?

Well, maybe I am missing the point here. If "music sounds like done in Live" it does so, because a lot of people go the easy way and just throw a bunch of loops together and think this makes a song. A lot of dance music is dominated by sounds from an 808, 909 and 303. Still, in 2005!!! Is Roland Corp. to blame for this??? Is it the fault of the radio that every public station here in Berlin plays Phil Collins 24/7 ? Don`t blame the tools for what people do with them.

Robert


T