what's better? HW drum machine?or SW dum sampler/machine?

[lola]

Why fuck a plastic doll while u can fuck a real wife?

The question that comes to mind now is:

Are you using the Ableton Live software sequencer/DAW or are you on some precious hardware to record your swinging beats? In case of the latter - what are you even doing here?

Regards,
Mikael

First of all, i love hardware, and i love software, as in seq hosts. (i own ableton payed for it and discuss here, allright with u?)

We are talking about a hardware drumbox v/s a soft one.
Most people here are supporting software, i am supporting hardware in this case, cuz its about sound (this discussion)
And now u are asking yourself what i am doing here???
How rude....

Learn to read first.

[Tarekith]

I use both hardware and software drum machines, in the past I've owned a Korg ER-1, Roland Mc505, Emu XL-7 and PX-7, and now I own a Machinedrum SPS-1uw. I've also used RM IV, Microtonic, Impulse, and Battery on the software side of things.

Does anyone of them sound better? Not IMO, they all sound different but the only ones I would say sound better are the Machinedrum and Microtonic.

Do I have a preference? Depends on the use. uTonic is nice because I can run it on my laptop, which means I can be out in the middle of the woods writing excellent sounding beats. If I had a choice though, I'd prefer the Machinedrum everytime. The sound isn't any better than what I can get out of uTonic (though it certainly has a lot more sonic options), it's the interface that I prefer. I can easily get more unique sounding percussion hits thanks to the MD's user interface which begs you to explore in more depth, not to mention has then unique parameter locks.

Anyway, all I'm saying is that I don't think hardware or software is better. They both have unique things that fit certain people's needs.

[Lo-Fi Massahkah]

We are talking about a hardware drumbox v/s a soft one.
Most people here are supporting software, i am supporting hardware in this case, cuz its about sound (this discussion)

You were the one bringing in eqs, compressors and summing...

And now u are asking yourself what i am doing here???
How rude....

Learn to read first.

If you read my question you'd see that I was questioning you being here if you were in fact using a hardware sequencer/DAW. Now that you're not - I'm surprised that you're so desperately clinging to your point that hardware should sound better.

Regards,
Mikael

[micah frank]

Does anyone of them sound better? Not IMO, they all sound different but the only ones I would say sound better are the Machinedrum and Microtonic.

I agree.... I am WAY into drum machines! The machinedrum is the greatest thing to ever happen to hardware drum machines. It's totally inspiring and sounds amazing - no software comparison. And the Microtonic is the best sounding software drum machine out there.

[Tarekith]

The machinedrum is the greatest thing to ever happen to hardware drum machines. It's totally inspiring and sounds amazing - no software comparison. And the Microtonic is the best sounding software drum machine out there.

That about sums it up IMO.

[ze2be]

Yes.

The ony difference is that hardware have dedicated interface.

Some hardware have exelent software

[Macrostructure]

Its realy simple, if u go for sound, choose hardware.
If the sound doesnt mather, go for software.

silly

[Macrostructure]

We can fight about Korg being superior to Roland but at the end of the day, you liveset is still fcking empty.[/u]

word

[lola]

We can fight about Korg being superior to Roland but at the end of the day, you liveset is still fcking empty.[/u]

word

Mebe check some hardware and compare.

[ze2be]

We can fight about Korg being superior to Roland but at the end of the day, you liveset is still fcking empty.[/u]

word

Mebe check some hardware and compare.

Ravin lunatic, you go do that! They are zeroes and ones, wraped in plastic and metal. Why dont you go check out some nice cars instead?

toot-toot!

[FaX-01]

Ditto - I'll leave you to your hardware lovefest.
I'm 38 and got my first synth at 16 Lola.
Do the MATH ........

What math.

i am 37 and got my first one in 1978


That math?

So daddy bought you a synth when you where ten then ? .
My point was I KNOW what hardware sounds like mmmmmkay.
To get back on track.
IF you want virtual based drum machines I would suggest the following two myself.

1.MicroTonic
2.Guru

(Easily the best I've seen IMHO though I do love Reason's Redrum myself).

If going hardware these would be my choices of DRUM MACHINE.

1.Machine Drum
2.Korg ESX-1 or ESMkII drum machines
3.Roland R8 (make sure it's in good condition and has extra rom cards).
4.Yamaha RY30 - quite possibly the most overlooked hardware drum machine on the market IMHO.

If you like physically bashing your beats out on pads then the MPC1000 is a good option and has USB data transfer too and from your computer.
It has nice groove and swing features also.
Or Korg's new USB PadControl controller looks very nice and has some exceptionally good roll / flam based options for more expressive beat programming also.

Also if you want a hardware rack based alternative you can sequence from LIVE I'd look at the Kawai XD5 which is a very good drum synthesis / playback unit alround ....
Ditto the original Emu Procussion or Roland's R8M.
The XD-5 has ALOT of synthesis options though with amplitude mod and a very unique sounding super gnarly digital resonant lowpass filter (12db per octave) that can be run in series or parallel.

The other option (and don't laugh people as it's a rather good compromise) is this.
Track down a second hand Roland MC303.
Don't worry about it's internal soundset.
It will transmit midi quite comfortable and would work well as a purely realtime XOX based sequencing device and midi arpeggiator for programming beats in LIVE.
That said in certain circles the MC303's drum set is gaining a bit of a fan based purely because of it's gritty'n'shitty low resolution samples which can be compressed too the shithouse and back again.
I know a few chip based muso's who love em for the pure crappy crunchyness and overall cheese factor actually.

Unlike LOLA I firmly believe its the person and not the tools used.
So the choice is yours.
One will sound equally as good as the other in the right hands.
If it doesn't then BLAME THE END USER and NOT the TOOLS USED.
There are plenty of options for you.
Get what you feel most comfortable with is all I'll say.
That is the best advice anyone can give.
And remember if using a sample based hardwarwe device ala MPC the rule of SHIT in = SHIT out still applies as it does with anything in the sampling world as a whole.

[lola]

Ditto - I'll leave you to your hardware lovefest.
I'm 38 and got my first synth at 16 Lola.
Do the MATH ........

What math.

i am 37 and got my first one in 1978


That math?

So daddy bought you a synth when you where ten then ? .
My point was I KNOW what hardware sounds like mmmmmkay.
To get back on track.
IF you want virtual based drum machines I would suggest the following two myself.

1.MicroTonic
2.Guru

(Easily the best I've seen IMHO though I do love Reason's Redrum myself).

If going hardware these would be my choices of DRUM MACHINE.

1.Machine Drum
2.Korg ESX-1 or ESMkII drum machines
3.Roland R8 (make sure it's in good condition and has extra rom cards).
4.Yamaha RY30 - quite possibly the most overlooked hardware drum machine on the market IMHO.

If you like physically bashing your beats out on pads then the MPC1000 is a good option and has USB data transfer too and from your computer.
It has nice groove and swing features also.
Or Korg's new USB PadControl controller looks very nice and has some exceptionally good roll / flam based options for more expressive beat programming also.

Also if you want a hardware rack based alternative you can sequence from LIVE I'd look at the Kawai XD5 which is a very good drum synthesis / playback unit alround ....
Ditto the original Emu Procussion or Roland's R8M.
The XD-5 has ALOT of synthesis options though with amplitude mod and a very unique sounding super gnarly digital resonant lowpass filter (12db per octave) that can be run in series or parallel.

The other option (and don't laugh people as it's a rather good compromise) is this.
Track down a second hand Roland MC303.
Don't worry about it's internal soundset.
It will transmit midi quite comfortable and would work well as a purely realtime XOX based sequencing device and midi arpeggiator for programming beats in LIVE.
That said in certain circles the MC303's drum set is gaining a bit of a fan based purely because of it's gritty'n'shitty low resolution samples which can be compressed too the shithouse and back again.
I know a few chip based muso's who love em for the pure crappy crunchyness and overall cheese factor actually.

Unlike LOLA I firmly believe its the person and not the tools used.
So the choice is yours.
One will sound equally as good as the other in the right hands.
If it doesn't then BLAME THE END USER and NOT the TOOLS USED.
There are plenty of options for you.
Get what you feel most comfortable with is all I'll say.
That is the best advice anyone can give.
And remember if using a sample based hardwarwe device ala MPC the rule of SHIT in = SHIT out still applies as it does with anything in the sampling world as a whole.

U can't seem to deal with fux 101.
Why get so upset?
Its just a discussion, no need to get personal.

Btw, its the PERSON + the RIGHT TOOLS = MAGIC... see i also can use caps.
Its a chain, if one of the ellements misses the chain gets broken, and there will be a less nice output.
The right sound will motivate u, u get a kick out of it.

Well,what i did spot in your post is some strange hardware advice, yes some..
MC303? come on.
Why did u not put a :
Sp 1200
Sp 12
Sequential studio 440
Mpc 60 or 3000
Simmons sds 3 < compare that one to microtonic

in your list?


Oh yes, that synth i got when i was ten? ( i spotted a bit of jelousy )
Was a comment on yours >(quote) "I'm 38 and got my first synth at 16 Lola.
Do the MATH ........[/" <(Quote mode off)

U thought u was unique or something?

[Lo-Fi Massahkah]

Well,what i did spot in your post is some strange hardware advice, yes some..
MC303? come on.
Why did u not put a :
Sp 1200
Sp 12
Sequential studio 440
Mpc 60 or 3000
Simmons sds 3 < compare that one to microtonic

If you would have read the post instead of just "spotting" it - you'd see that the point of the mc303 was to get cheap step sequencer access.

I'm also starting to think that this is not about hardware vs software, it's not about analog vs digital. From your point of view it seem more of a "do-belive-the-hype-retro-nostalgia-snobbism". Come on... SP 12?!?! That downsampled-low-sample-memory sound is quite easily obatinable. Why get an old, bulky, expensive machine to get that sound?

Regards,
Mikael

[FaX-01]

Well,what i did spot in your post is some strange hardware advice, yes some..
MC303? come on.
Why did u not put a :
Sp 1200
Sp 12
Sequential studio 440
Mpc 60 or 3000
Simmons sds 3 < compare that one to microtonic :D

in your list?


U thought u was unique or something?

SP1200 and SP12 have limited sampling ability sound great but would be hard to get replacement parts for lets be honest.
Great units and cult machines at a magically stupendous asking price.
You could get pretty close too the SP1200 sound with just an original Emax SE rack sampler for a fraction of the price and sequence in LIVE.

Sequential Studio 440 - Lowpass filter with no resonance , relatively rare , great sound but damn hard and expensive to get parts for unless you want to ship it off too Wine County for repairs.
I should know I used to own 2 Prophet 2002+ Rack samplers.

Suggesting a Studio 440 no matter "how cool" it is would be like suggesting a KorgS3 and having the poor guy slam his head against the wall lerning to program it. No matter how goog the S3 is the key contacts are shonky at best and you would be hard pressed to find any new or replacement parts for them.

MPC60 -> MPC3000 what is this ?
The wank-a-rama drop a cult drum machine name festival .
Once again way overpriced for the feature said.
As good as anything MrLinn puts his magic touch too I suggested the MPC1000 due too the USB connectivity and easy file aspects of modern day studio compatibility.
It still has the same sequencing capabilities , good pad response and V2.0 software adds quite a few nice extras that more or less make the 2500 not worth the extra 1K asking price.
It may sound sonically different but it has more features for the buck.
And lets be honest the 60/3000/2000/4000/1000&2500 all sound slightly different to each other anyway.

If you are going to be such a retro smart arse why not tell him to get a FORAT 9000 instead. which would trounce the Sp12 / Studio 440 and Simmons SDS anyday of the week.

I mentioned an MC-303 as a cheap XOX input option for use with LIVE.
If you already have a midi interface these can be had for peanuts.
You do NOT even need to connect the audio outs on them.
Just MIDI it up to impulse and something like MicroTonic and you have a very cheap and effective XOX based sequencing solution for absolutely peanuts that saves you dicking around with a mouse when writing beats.


I would still suggest the RS7000 as the best interface myself.
Show me a sequencer you've mentioned that can......

Sequence all percussion parts on seperate tracks with the following sequencing features only.

A)sequence parts from 1 bar too 256 bars long per pattern.

B)each percussion track can be any time signature and of any length simultaneously.

C)each percussion track has over 2000 realtime recycle templates of any midi data.

D) can snap in and out of step or grid mode with full track monitor while recording

E)has grid modes from 1/4 notes and triplets to 1/128th note plus triplet subdivisions switchable on the fly

F) has a step sequencer that can handle flams and rolls at anywhere up too 1/480th of a crotchet note.

H) can ineffect have for example ......
1.Track 1/Section A - a 16 bar kick pattern in 4/4
2. Track 2 / Section A - a 128 bar 15/16 percussion pattern
Track 3 / Section A - a 8 bar 7/4 snare pattern
Track 5 / Section A - a 24 bar 2/4 hihat pattern

All of which will loop around at their respective lengths and time signatures whilst staying in perfect sync with the master clock.
All Sections work this way and each track in a section can have it's own phrase or pattern with it's own length , its own time signature and it's own instrument.

This does not include midi time stretch of data from 25% too 800% of any phrase which can be step programmed as CC messages within a phrase.
It also does not include midi delay or midi play effects that can clock shift data by specified PPQN's in realtime with full input quantise and any resolution and the like.

Add to that a 64 meg sampling engine that recycles audio as well with remix templates for audio+midi data with full drum job split key commands and the like and you have one fucker of a programming tool all with a 25 odd knobbed interface 16+ filters indepent pitch/filter/amp adsr's and lfo's per track a mastering multiband compressor 1 insert 2 sends and independent parametric eq per track and you have something that is way more powerful than an MPC60.

And I should know I've owned one of those years ago also.
A hanful of people here know what I am capable of programming an production wise.
I also know my drum machines and programming tools exceptionally well.
I'm not the one reverting too snide, passive agressive comments that only you think are funny.

I sure as hell don't think I'm anything special Lola.
I sure as hell am unique and as unique as any individual is on this forum or anwhere in the world for that matter.
I just am not going to be so myopic as too assume that all hardware is better than software all of the time.
I will still stand by my claim it is the artist and their skill level and NOT the tools used which yield the best results.
A MachineDrum will sound like absolute shit in the hands of someone with zero skills for example.
A well skilled muso could even freak out an MC-505 which has a full XV synth engine in it BTW and make it sound better than the talentless dick with a MachineDrum.
Give me that "laughable" MC-303 a chaos pad an audio editor and Live and I could chuck out anything using the 303 as a sound source that matched anything any of the other machines could muster.
They are all tools ..... it is up to us as musicians and electronic composers to become masters and not slaves of the technology at hand.

[DKushner]

Its a strange fact, that people are gonna buy summin products,

I laugh my ass off at anyone who uses a summing product. Talk about force of habit from the old days creating an entirely new product catagory that does nothing. Unless you're using something like an SSL (read: not a summing product) sending your signals out to analog gear isn't going to make a measurable impact. And by the way, WAVES modeled the SSL channelstrip and the plugs sound awesome.