Loops and guilt

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Tue May 16, 2006 3:54 pm

Tarekith wrote:>>>You mean like relating it in terms of session musicians? <<<

heeh, actually no - I meant staying within the realms of music composition solely, using a session musician as an analogy for using drum loops...is as detached from the art of making your own grooves - as home brewing is in my opinion, And I already explained why...

what I meant was, but didnt say clearly enough, was that on the topic of making drum loops or using pre-fabricated drum loops - we should stick to exactly that, and not conceive one act as another...because we dont live in fairy world, unfortuneatly.

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:07 pm

Sure right you are gentlemen! <---that's my favorite eric cartman line

Doesn't this debate just come down to personal taste?

I use loops everyday even when I'm not making music - I'm digging through used record stores like it's nobodies business. I'm in Platinum everyday listening to jams I'd like to make studying them, breaking them down etc and if it's hot I buy it go home and do some more "home work"

I jack beats every day but the final result is mine - some loops are hot - do you guys remember that jam by DK "The real Jazz!" that loop got played the fuck out, but I bet if someone used it right now and it was hot you'd shit your pants

remember that loop from Oxia's "etat des pre (spellings weak)" I know to many records that went on to use that loop - all jams to

or Terry and Halo's SpeakerPhreakers album - that one loop got used and is still used well if I might add by some decent producers

I mean the beat goes on and on - if you don't like loops, don't use 'em - I don't think Cirez D uses loops and he's on top right now but so is Marco Bailey and I think he may have used a loop or two in his life

Does that deter me from buying their records - fuck no!

Put it this way - I'd rather hear a beat (pre fab or otherwise) then hear some weird noises that have no purpose, no rhythm no funk nothing - oh wait it has soul, that's right soul

A jams a jams a jam

I use loops listen and tell me www.myspace.com/teknolife

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:16 pm

lol - i never said no rhythm no funk, those things can be achieved just by learning how to MAKE/PROGRAM them, I was talking more about the textures - thats all those loops provide that you cant make yourself - sounds&textures from synths & sound sources you dont have.....but, the art of composition is universal and you can take snips of white noise, turn it into a groove. take more snips of white noise, and make different pitches and make a funky line.......learning how to compose with what you have, you can make anything albeit with a different texture. Use loops and you miss out on that journey and the fruits attained from going that route.

its disengenuous of you to suggest I meant 'no rhythm no funk - is good so long as its original' - well now it should be clear at least. I did say 'just plain bad' ...but hell...not that bad...hehe

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:25 pm

gotta chime back in to say that even "real musicians" -- those who can play various instruments and thus can "create" own loops -- may love to use loops because of the "found art" aspect of things. one of the reasons i love live -- was working on a song, wanted to add some rhythmic something for more energy, mistakenly triggered a lead synth sample that sounded interesting with what was going on, played with the sample envelope, reversed it, etc., love where it ended up, no one can tell where the loop came from, i don't think it matters (real musicians steal each other's licks, ideas, and change them slightly all the time (cf. stone, zep, everyone)). one of the other things i find liberating about electronic music: when you're playing traditional music, you really just messing with the notes. that is, you may play the guitar through a marshall on one track and a fender twin on another, but it's still really just a guitar. with electronic stuff, you're much more obviously playing with sound, which is interesting of itself. so using a drum loop that's really just a variant of one of 4 or 5 basic drum beats underpinning almost all pop in the west is more about the sonic content (whether fat analog drum or weird twittery glitch) than where the downbeat falls.

if you're willing to put down all sample based music -- including PE, beck, etc. -- then you're at least consistent. but to say that what beck does when he lifts a sample for one of his songs is not music or is somehow less artistic than if he "created" all the loops himself is kind of silly (whereas hammer's can't touch this is pretty clearly not music -- or at least not worthy of being considered artistic in any sense -- so there's a line in there somewhere, where you not even really remixing, just stealing).

pulsoc · Post by **pulsoc** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:25 pm

I'd be interested in hearing some of your music bOunce.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:49 pm

pulsoc wrote:I'd be interested in hearing some of your music bOunce.

really? thats a bit abrubt...I suppose I better be a virtuoso otherwise the basic standards I aspire to, or indeed anything I say on this topic, is shit right?

anyways back to the discussion, got anything else to add ? or do I have to proove myself as a master programmer first? ... lol - my point precisely is actualisation comes with perseverance. even if I present you with complete dirge my statements remain true. true-r infact.

pulsoc · Post by **pulsoc** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:54 pm

Well, I just saw that you had made over 300 posts since joining the forum a month ago, and wondered how you managed to find time to make music. And since you avoided my question I can only assume you are a useless troll.

So have a nice opinion!!

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:58 pm

heh - I'll upload something special for you pulsoc - even tho you're interest is not genuine, merely a shallow attempt to one-up me instead of staying on the topic. Cant you continue the discussion without reducing it to this ? And you have the nerve to call me a troll ? ....*nods head*

perhaps unlucky for you I work behind a computer, and have plenty of time for 'trolling' to kill the time.

ILTK · Post by **ILTK** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:59 pm

argumentum ad hominem, I knew that would come

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Tue May 16, 2006 5:06 pm

heh, I admit I'm not surprised either.

pulsoc · Post by **pulsoc** » Tue May 16, 2006 5:07 pm

Nah, I just think it's funny that the only people who aren't "cheating" themselves of this invaluable musical knowledge - well, they haven't actually produced anything.

However, I am sure you guys are right. Better to be a barren Mozart than a - well, whatever I am.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Tue May 16, 2006 5:16 pm

having a basic standard does not equate to musical excellence, as you seem to think. its a footing at which to begin, the right path, the roots of knowledge etc.....jesus christ (pbuh!)

its all anyone said, if you dont subscribe to it - no big deal, lift and rip all you want.
you are the one trolling, I've just stated my thoughts on the matter.

pulsoc · Post by **pulsoc** » Tue May 16, 2006 5:39 pm

Perhaps you're right. I admit I am a little offended, because I use loops at times, but I feel that I have learned shitloads about programming anyway. So to say "All loops are bad because using them will stunt your growth musically" is wrong, IMHO, and I humbly offer myself as evidence. My asking about your music was intended to verify whether you could offer similar evidence of the process you described to avoid "cheating" yourself of knowledge.

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Tue May 16, 2006 5:42 pm

pulsoc wrote:Perhaps you're right. I admit I am a little offended, because I use loops at times, but I feel that I have learned shitloads about programming anyway. So to say "All loops are bad because using them will stunt your growth musically" is wrong, IMHO, and I humbly offer myself as evidence. My asking about your music was intended to verify whether you could offer similar evidence of the process you described to avoid "cheating" yourself of knowledge.

More people than you think use loops and sleep well at night

More people than you think don't use loops and they sleep just as well

we're all human beings and have basic needs like food, water, shelter and relaxation time and an XBOX 360 when Halo 3 and Splintercell come out

and fulfilling those needs is key to our survival as human beings especially if you don't have a XBOX 360

food to ponder - Pul I sent you a friend request

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Tue May 16, 2006 5:42 pm

heh, and I'm going to show you some stuff I've made. I'll up some stuff, post it in the 'your music' section and let you know when to check.