(ot) HAPPY FOURTH OF JULY AMERICANS!

[djshiva]

Why stop at Berkely? There are plenty of gay that are perseceuted, women that are victimized, and thinly vieled racsim to this day throughout the country.

I believe in Humans rights, easy

however when it comes to the quest for equality I don't like to be lumped in with gays and women, being a black person.

It's far to easy for a gay person to pass for straight or a woman to show a little tit and ass to get her way

Blacks and Mexicans can't change the color of their skin no matter how much ass and titty they show

I do believe two married gay people should have the same rights as straight people - if your partner is in the hospital you have every right to know what's going on, you are family - that is your family

I believe in that stuff, for real - I just don't want to be lumped into the whole "I'm different I need special treatment" group

in America

a couple of points here:

i agree with you on one point, and that is that you cannot change your skin color. however, i have to ask you this:

if someone asked you to cover your skin color in order to get a gig, would you do it? how would you feel? would you do it and feel guilty later? would you turn it down?

now take that and apply it to being gay or female.

should i "act straight" in order to get a gig? should i blink my lashes and shove my tits out to get a gig? what if doing those two things go against everything that i am? what if doing these two things makes me sick to the core, and keep me subjected to the dominant culture's ideas of who i am?

basically adonis, what i am doing is using a very simple analogy to ask you if you think assimilation into the dominant culture has ever been easy for, healthy for, or done anything positive for anyone on the outside margins of that culture? and while you are correct that you cannot change your skin color, you are mistaken in thinking that "acting straight" or "showing my tits" is asking anything less unnatural of me.

i could go on for hours about how i think your own sexism affects your view of women and gays, but instead i will just say that i think it does. this is not to make a nasty comment toward you, but to say what i think are the origins of this offkilter viewpoint.

[djadonis206]

Ah good points but I have to ask what is "acting striaght" I know plenty of gay men and women who you would not be able to distinguish between gay or straight simply on the way they talk, walk or carry themselves.

Women, are another story. I would say no, if it goes against what you believe then showing a little this or that is something you shouldn't do

but if we pull up a few female dj's on say the internet they are to some extent being somewhat sexual - even Barbara's homepage gives away a sense of sexuality - she's far from Sexy on the decks (She's an amazing dj and that get's props from me) but a lot of female dj's do just that - show enough tit and ass to get by - I think we can agree on that

Now back to the gays - my attitude towards homosexuality is one of acceptance - not tolerance. Someone very close to me (family member you could say) is gay and it took me a long time to accept it but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I accept all people for being people - doesn't mean I'm going to start dating Asain girls or anything like that. I live in the Gay capitol of Seattle and a lot of friends I have are gay - and could pass for straight if you didn't know any better. but what goes on behind (no pun intended) the scenes I'd rather not know - feel me?

If you're a flamboyaunt out and about gay flag waving homo who feels they shouldn't tone it down a notch for a job interview then that's your choice - but most of the gays I know you wouldn't be able to tell unless they told you <--- that was my point

So, yes you can act normal and pass in everyday culture as a gay person

Jorge and me, no matter how white we acted still wouldn't be able to make the same moves

[djshiva]

well i certainly did not say one COULDN'T "act straight" or "show tits". you are not answering the question, but are trying to change the point.

what i said was that asking anyone to assimilate into the dominant culture by being something they are not, is NOT gaining them any kind of freedom or equal rights with those in the dominant majority. it is asking them to hide themselves for a superficial gain (job, gig, etc.) at the expense of their self-worth, instead of demanding that the dominant culture not require obeisance to its hangup-ridden authority in exchange for equal protection under the law.


and again i ask (because you did not answer directly): if someone asked you to hide your color to get a gig, what would you say?

[djadonis206]

Women, are another story. I would say no, if it goes against what you believe then showing a little this or that is something you shouldn't do it

Shiva, I did answer your question

[djshiva]

ok. well then we can agree on this one then.

i still think you are a little mistaken on what "rights" mean to women and gay people though. no one is asking for anything special. what we want is equal protection under the law, and to not be considered second class citizens. that seems pretty par for the course, really.

frankly, i have to pay taxes like everyone else, so i deserve the same things every other tax payer considers basic rights (be it marriage, property ownership, adoption...whatever).

[djadonis206]

I believe a gay person, couple and child is entitled to everything a straight person is entitled to, that includes Adoptions, Abortions, Marriage and all that that the marriage titled brings so...

I don't understand homosexuality but who cares, it's not for me to understand or even tolerate - but I must accept them as human beings and the fact they need to be treated as equals

Ah ha - yet another fine quote from the one they call Adonis

I think everyone should be treated equally no matter race, religion, ethnic background or sexual orientation

my example is the Hospital - if your partner (your family) is in a car wreck you should be entitled to know what's going on with your partner - but in most states that info is privi to family

I'm not the hate mongerer I wish I was

[thelike5]

The time that is spent hating our country could be better spent doing something positive. A lot of good has come from our country in the last few centuries. There is no reason to let the last 6 years paint a disproportionately bad image in our minds of our own country.

I highly reccomend checking out the new Al gore flick "An Inconvenient Truth." I t has given me some healthy fear and and recent hope. I like it because it adresses the reality of what is going on without reminding us sensitive Americans too many times that we are these evil, horrible creatures that are, albeit obliviously, consuming the entire planet.

The current administration and the vegetables that empowered it with their votes are like a bad natural disaster, and those of us who remmember what this country used to be, owe it to ourselves to defend it in the very same manner. I think I can take some time to respect what our country DID in the past. Of course I did spend the whole day praticing the first of many new intended languages as I pragmatically accept the fact that the conditon of the states is growing worse all of the time.

i have to bring up the obvious point, and that is that america engaged in genocide to get this country, slavery to build it, imperialist meddling in other countries (think central and south america) and countless wars to ensure its economic and military might.

i can't be too impressed with the track record so far...sorry man...

Where else are you going to go? Like Europe, Africa, and Asia have less blood on their hands??!!

Until there is a Utopian society, I think a majority of us are stuck here, on Earth.

When and if you want to come down from the clouds, hit me up with a reply...

[djshiva]

The time that is spent hating our country could be better spent doing something positive. A lot of good has come from our country in the last few centuries. There is no reason to let the last 6 years paint a disproportionately bad image in our minds of our own country.

I highly reccomend checking out the new Al gore flick "An Inconvenient Truth." I t has given me some healthy fear and and recent hope. I like it because it adresses the reality of what is going on without reminding us sensitive Americans too many times that we are these evil, horrible creatures that are, albeit obliviously, consuming the entire planet.

The current administration and the vegetables that empowered it with their votes are like a bad natural disaster, and those of us who remmember what this country used to be, owe it to ourselves to defend it in the very same manner. I think I can take some time to respect what our country DID in the past. Of course I did spend the whole day praticing the first of many new intended languages as I pragmatically accept the fact that the conditon of the states is growing worse all of the time.

i have to bring up the obvious point, and that is that america engaged in genocide to get this country, slavery to build it, imperialist meddling in other countries (think central and south america) and countless wars to ensure its economic and military might.

i can't be too impressed with the track record so far...sorry man...

Where else are you going to go? Like Europe, Africa, and Asia have less blood on their hands??!!

Until there is a Utopian society, I think a majority of us are stuck here, on Earth.

When and if you want to come down from the clouds, hit me up with a reply...

oh believe me i don't think the US is the only one with blood on our hands. i have read my history, so don't go thinking i would just talk smack about american history. every nation has a chequered past. i just happen to live in this one, so i have a vested interest in knowing what is being done in my name.

i just take issue with people constantly talking about how much better the US's track record is than the rest of the world, when a) the track record sucks, and b) we're no better or worse than any other nation. our country is just better at public relations than others, so we are really good at spinning ourselves into looking better.

it's not "head in the clouds" to want to discuss the history of this nation or any other from an informed perspective, instead of just spouting out patriotic "truisms" that have no bearing on reality. that is all i am getting at here.

**edited to add**

one thing i am afraid of is that the current state of politics is going to cause people to compare this administration to others and actually have the others come out looking favorable, when that is not the case at all.

one thing that drives me crazy about many liberals (and i count myself as more radical than liberal, but usually get tagged with the big L), is that in the midst of this Bush ridiculousness, they will start talking with starry eyes about the days of Clinton. uhhhh...clinton got involved in wars, had missiles shot at pharmaceutical factories in sudan and afghanistan, and basically played a nice sized role in the telecommunications act of 1996 as well as NAFTA. so he killed people, and gave away our media to the corporations, and opened up our borders to allow jobs to move overseas.

he was no saint, and it annoys me that people keep inferring that he was. and therein is the problem i have. dig deeper and find truth, instead of just taking in the propaganda and regurgitating it as your own opinion. if anything, that would be the point i am trying to make, albeit clumsily...

[eyeknow]

yeah - i know it's July 4th - but you can celebrate the good things about America without having to say it's better than others

Mr forge, please explain why it's ok for others to bash, and for americans not to say defend/pump themselves up? No, this is not an attack..........

[thelike5]

[quote="djshiva one thing that drives me crazy about many liberals (and i count myself as more radical than liberal, but usually get tagged with the big L), is that in the midst of this Bush ridiculousness, they will start talking with starry eyes about the days of Clinton. uhhhh...clinton got involved in wars, had missiles shot at pharmaceutical factories in sudan and afghanistan, and basically played a nice sized role in the telecommunications act of 1996 as well as NAFTA. so he killed people, and gave away our media to the corporations, and opened up our borders to allow jobs to move overseas.

he was no saint, and it annoys me that people keep inferring that he was. and therein is the problem i have. dig deeper and find truth, instead of just taking in the propaganda and regurgitating it as your own opinion. if anything, that would be the point i am trying to make, albeit clumsily...

Have to agree with you here. People also seem to forget (maybe due to a blue dress and a blowjob?) that Clinton was the one that signed the Free Trade agreement right before he left office. He kinda became the Republicans best friend in doing so. Sure in our little corner of the music world it meant we could get Behringer mixers for $100 sometimes less... great, unless you work for Mackie and found out your going to be called Tapco and yeah, your job just went to China...

Good points Shiva. I consider myself to be something of a liberal and I liked Clinton ok. I just would never talk about him like he was the best thing that ever happened to American politics...

[djadonis206]

As the world waits for Live 6 we discuss politics, human rights and George Bush

As the world waits - tick tick tick

In the mean time we can play Lambs if you like?

BEBE'S MOM
Oh, hello, boys.

STAN
Is Bebe home?

BEBE'S MOM
No, she's with one of her little friends.
But she should be back shortly if you
boys wanna wait.

BOY 1
Who is she with?

BEBE'S MOM
I believe she is playing "Lambs" over
at Eric Cartman's house.

STAN
Cartman's?

[Cartman's basement. He's at his hole again, and Bebe is sitting
next to him. He has his basket, lotion, and rubber poodle ready
to go]

CARTMAN
And this is Precious.

BEBE
Precious?

CARTMAN
Bark bark bark. Okay, so then we put
my mom's hand lotion in this little
basket and lower it down to Polly Prissy
Pants.

BEBE
Uh huh.

CARTMAN
Now you say, "It puts the lotion on
its skin or else it gets the hose again."


BEBE
It puts the lotion on its skin or else
it gets the hose again.

CARTMAN
Heheh, yeah.

POLLY PRISSY PANTS
Mister, please let me out of here.


CARTMAN
Now say it again, louder.

BEBE
It puts the lotion on its skin or else
it gets the hose again.

CARTMAN
Good. Now, now put the lotion back in
the basket!

POLLY PRISSY PANTS
My parents have money, Mister. They'll
give you whatever you want. Please!


CARTMAN
Now, just yell "Put the lotion in the
fucking basket!"

BEBE
Put the lotion in the basket!

CARTMAN
Put the lotion in the fucking basket!
Oh no! Precious! I've got your dog,
Mister. Let me out or I'm gonna kill
it! Now you say, "Don't you hurt my
fuckin' dog!"

BEBE
Don't you hurt my fucking dog!

CARTMAN
You bitch, I'll cut your throat if-


KYLE
What the hell are you doing?

CARTMAN
We're playing "Lambs."

[eyeknow]

Ok, so everyone hates america/bush/clinton/etc......we are the evil empire and all the actors and musicians hate us and yadda yadda yadda.

Ya know, everyone hates something, some things I hate I can't talk about.

hate hate hate, I hear it from the media, I hear it from other countries, I hear it allot lately on here.

hate, everyone hates us. We were evil to do anything we've ever done......OK? I admit it......you win...........

Is there a way to move on from this? Maybe have a beer and chill?

[djadonis206]

Hey, Get Me Outta Here, I'm a Klingnanian!

[kennerb]

Hey, Get Me Outta Here, I'm a Klingnanian!

Qaq

[djadonis206]

"Who Wants To Marry A Gelgamek?"

GELGAMEK CARDINAL
"The Gelgamek vagina is three feet wide
and filled with razor-sharp teeth. Do
you really expect us to have sex with
them?!"