ot/ dumbos of America

[forge]

Chavez said he was sorry he didn't get to meet Chomsky before he died.... but Chomsky isn't even dead.

That's pretty funny if it's true.
Where did you read it? I didn't see it in his "el Diablo" speech.

I think he really meant say that he wished he woulda met Chomsky before his ideology went dead.

- r

in fact he probably did say that according to the right translators

[muscleandhate]

No one believes he is not a self-publicist, he has his own poltical agenda no doubt and I think he is incredibly, if not dangerously, egotistical. Whilst you say he is a dictator, he is in power squarely because of a democratic process, he is popular with the people. Like I said, whether or not you believe he is helping the poor out of some deep rooted belief in altruistic notions or that he has realised he can compound his political legecy by having attractive policies to the starving masses can not subract from the fact that he is doing something positive. If you look at his opposition, what do they want? They simply reflect the core interests of big business and the private sector, profit before people above all else. Western democratic models and their doped citizens believe they are in a meaningful democratic process through constant and extremely well crafted propaganda. What really exists, especially in the US is a top-down model of democracy whereby the people have no meaningful decision over public policy. The interests of the Government are purely structured around the accumiliation of capital in the hands of a few, not about what's good for the people, welfare, the enviroment etc. The American revolution has been a perverted one indeed.

well put

so i guess if hitler gave gave jews an ice cream sunday before he gassed them he would be considered kind and charitable

Sorry but it's outright stupid to try and make comparisons with Adolph Hitler, you just seem to be regurgitating empty and hollow comparisons made by the current administration. But seeing as you brought him up, did you know your country was doing business with him before and during the War?

[Angstrom]

Is Chavez a dictator?

I thought he was elected.


And the comparisons with Hitler, I didn't know that he was the next Hitler I guess he must :

have some kind of illegal torture camps?
Be criticised across the globe for his avoidance of the geneva convention?
Be starting a war on many fronts, justified on racial/moral grounds?
Be setting up special police forces with new powers over his population?
Calling anyone who resists him a Terrorist and 'detaining' them without trial?
'Securing' the borders of his country?
Setting up a climate of fear where everyone is afraid to speak out?
Be trying to take control of a continent based on racial purity?
Be feeding the fear of his people toward nebulous 'enemy' groups in order to maintain control?


I don't know, but I'm not sure that's Chavez you are thinking of, it may be someone else though.

[knotkranky]

Is Chavez a dictator?

I thought he was elected.


And the comparisons with Hitler, I didn't know that he was the next Hitler I guess he must :

have some kind of illegal torture camps?
Be criticised across the globe for his avoidance of the geneva convention?
Be starting a war on many fronts, justified on racial/moral grounds?
Be setting up special police forces with new powers over his population?
Calling anyone who resists him a Terrorist and 'detaining' them without trial?
'Securing' the borders of his country?
Setting up a climate of fear where everyone is afraid to speak out?
Be trying to take control of a continent based on racial purity?
Be feeding the fear of his people toward nebulous 'enemy' groups in order to maintain control?


I don't know, but I'm not sure that's Chavez you are thinking of, it may be someone else though.

nice one

[rtopia]

Is Chavez a dictator?

I thought he was elected.

most dictators in history have been elected

Be setting up special police forces with new powers over his population?

Not yet?
(most of the reports of the new special police in Venezuela I've seen have come from "questionable/biased" sources)

I personally give this one less than a year to play out.
It depends on how much shit the "producers" in that country are willing to put up with.

Setting up a climate of fear where everyone is afraid to speak out?

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11056

http://hrw.org/reports/2003/venezuela/venez0503-03.htm

http://www.sipiapa.org/pulications/repo ... la2005.cfm

Be feeding the fear of his people toward nebulous 'enemy' groups in order to maintain control?

Does the using term "America" mean that Chavez' enemy is less nebulous?

- r

[Angstrom]

Is Chavez a dictator?
I thought he was elected.

most dictators in history have been elected

er, that logic doesn't prove anything!

most Zebras are black and white
Buster Keaton films are black and white
therefore Zebras are Buster Keaton films

He's probably not a great bloke, but I actually prefer him over W.
The destabilising influence that W has tried to insert into Venezuela to get at their oil, well, any leader there who wanted to stave that off would need to impose some pretty tough restrictions. I see that the US has some mightly tough restrictions in place right now, special police, 'emergency laws', reporting restrictions of one kind or another.

the US has a history of destabilising countries and inserting new leaders, it's a list as long as my arm - I'm pretty sure Chavez doesn't want Venezuala to be added to that list, and neither would I.

Worldwide Press Freedom Index 2005

Some Western democracies slipped in the Index. The United States (44th) fell more than 20 places, mainly because of the imprisonment of New York Times reporter Judith Miller and judicial action that is undermining the privacy of journalistic sources.

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=15333



I remember reading back in 2002 that the W regime intended to start a media campaign against Venezuela . The plan was - a quick victory in Iraq, then secure the biggest pot of black gold nearer to home.

fortunately for Venezuela Iraq turned into an oily eternal war which will drain military resources.

Still it doesn't stop the propaganda department keeping up the 'new Hitler' nonsense.

There are many leaders in this world with a more offensive list of actual documented crimes, as opposed to simply an unstable country and grumbles of corruption. I guess they just dont have anything the Empire wants?

[dm_hawk]

The U.N. address by Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has had an unexpected impact — on the best seller lists of Amazon.com and Barnes & Noble.com.

At the start of his talk Wednesday, during which Chavez referred to President Bush as "the devil," Chavez held up a book by Noam Chomsky, "Hegemony or Survival: America's Quest for Global Dominance," and recommended it to everyone in the General Assembly, as well as to the American people.

"The people of the United States should read this ... instead of the watching Superman movies," Chavez later told reporters.

VENEZUELA GETS A PRESIDENT WHO READS??? HEEEEY, NO FAIR!!!!!!

[glu]

VENEZUELA GETS A PRESIDENT WHO READS??? HEEEEY, NO FAIR!!!!!!

[mikemc]

One of the nice things about these leader type folks who are at odds with the current administration (time til expired at http://www.backwardsbush.com/ ) is that they always mention how much they love the American people. That fellow who runs Iran mentioned that in Time magazine last week, too.

[glu]

they say that b/c over half the U.S. population wishes Bush to be out of office.
representative democracy is not working....

[mikemc]

they say that b/c over half the U.S. population wishes Bush to be out of office.
representative democracy is not working....

more specifically, they say that to appeal to that majority in order to get people to believe they are somehow more trustworthy. but at the end of the day, what politics is about is gaining the trust of people you are ultimately planning to use to get your way.

[Machinesworking]

GWB will not talk to Chavez, period. This makes GWB the lessor man IMO.

I don't have to like or agree with Chavez to think that, it's about liberty and meaningful dialogue, if GWB will not engage Chavez on any level, then my respect for him in this little drama diminishes.

Claim all you want about Chavez being a dictator etc. there are actual dictators right now that we throw our support behind, and any amount of BS can't change that. We don't like him becaue we supported the regime that tried a military coup a few years ago. He doesn't like us because we loaned the coup militia the helicopters they flew him around in while they took power!


Anyway, it's smart to know the history of a conflict before deciding who is right or wrong based on one incident.

[rtopia]

Is Chavez a dictator?
I thought he was elected.

most dictators in history have been elected

er, that logic doesn't prove anything!

and the fact that he was elected doesn't mean he isn't a dictator either

(which was really my point)

I'm not implying that anyone is the new Hitler.
(isn't a thread supposed to be dead when Hitler is mentioned?)

IMO - history will prove what kind of dictator Chavez is (especially if he's still el presidente 10 years from now)

- r

[jackmazzotti]

One of the nice things about these leader type folks who are at odds with the current administration (time til expired at http://www.backwardsbush.com/ ) is that they always mention how much they love the American people. That fellow who runs Iran mentioned that in Time magazine last week, too.

he especially loves jews
thats why he wants to kill them all

[jackmazzotti]

GWB will not talk to Chavez, period. This makes GWB the lessor man IMO.

I don't have to like or agree with Chavez to think that, it's about liberty and meaningful dialogue, if GWB will not engage Chavez on any level, then my respect for him in this little drama diminishes.

Claim all you want about Chavez being a dictator etc. there are actual dictators right now that we throw our support behind, and any amount of BS can't change that. We don't like him becaue we supported the regime that tried a military coup a few years ago. He doesn't like us because we loaned the coup militia the helicopters they flew him around in while they took power!


Anyway, it's smart to know the history of a conflict before deciding who is right or wrong based on one incident.

he called our president the devil in our own country
he is a low class thug
and dummies follow him because they don't bush
i suppose you can do or say anything as long as you don't like bush

in fact the entire libreral drivel is nothing more than bush bashing
heck if bush wasn't in power they wouldn't have anything to say at all (would almost would have been a good enough reason for me not to have voted for him)